General Table Talk

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

I must say that I love what you've done with Wen. And I can see her doing all the things you have her do in the "backstory" and behaving the way she did, for the reasons she did. Bravo!

[Xavi]

@Marko Markoko

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Just to be sure I'm not confused: the High Noon in Evissa thread: that's a chapterhouse thread, right?

Yes
Xavi and I finished early and wanted to start poking at each other. Anyone else finished and ready, post the character fresh and hop on aboard!

You guys should control this Roberto guy. He comes to eat mutton and drink wine armed and armoured for combat. He seems to have principles or something weird like that. Ah, poor guy.

[Marko_Markoko]

I came here to die with you. Or live with you. Dying ain't so hard for men like you and me. It's livin' that's hard, when all you ever cared about has been butchered or raped.
...
I came here like this so that you know my word of death is true, and that my word of life is then true.

[Xavi]

Yeah yeah, sure. Have some wine. :mrgreen:
The Brothers for one have a clear preference here

[Marko_Markoko]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

I must say that I love what you've done with Wen. And I can see her doing all the things you have her do in the "backstory" and behaving the way she did, for the reasons she did. Bravo!

You are welcome to take over playing Wen if you like. In fact, I encourage it! I plan on generating several more grogs for Roberto, as I paid the price in Boons for a much increased "staff". I am thinking three more soldiers, six "reformed" pirates, and using his additional income to pay for a few extra mooks. Wen would have rank over them

[Marko_Markoko]

@Xavi

Yeah yeah, sure. Have some wine. :mrgreen:
The Brothers for one have a clear preference here

Not so much worried about the Brothers as a whole. More so about the individual wizards amongst them.
We'll see how it plays out. And besides, Roberto dresses like that normally :mrgreen:
But the cat is certainly appreciative for the wine

[Xavi]

I will recommend you a tailor I know. You might be surprised by this new dressing concept called "a tunic" and what it can do for your comfort. It is a really recent dressing feature. I think it was a Summerian invention from just a few millenia ago. Try it, really.

And well, calling "magicians" to guys with a single supernatural ability like flight or second sight, or using an invisibility cloak created by the Order of Hermes might be a little bit extreme :mrgreen: As far as you have seen, we carry disguissed zippo lighters in our sleeves. :mrgreen:

[The_Fixer]

Xavi: lol
I, too, was surprised that Roberto gave the “Join or Die” to what are probably Hedge Magi.

Marko: Read it all! Nice work, I hope I didn’t miss anything too important.

You might want to do similar rules for non-magi.
Say, choose an age, like 25, and each year below gives 2 Vitality, while each year above gives 4 bp, something like that (Random numbers not thought through at all, mind you)

@Marko Markoko

Fatigue: Points of Vitality may spent to recover Fatigue more quickly. One point of Vitality can change a Long Term Fatigue level lost into a Short Term loss (one point per fatigue level so converted, which may be done all at once). You may also suddenly recover lost Shirt Term levels, drawing upon inner reserves for a burst of energy or second wind. You can automatically recover one level per round of rest by spending a Vitality point on each. You can do this even if unconscious.

I love this.
Thing is, it's fine for normal fatigue, but I wonder how it's gonna work with Life Boost and LLFM. Maybe well, maybe not.
If feeling you need to nerf it, you might change the cost to one by fatigue level.

Combined with Vitality-as-Confidence, it encourages young magi to throw themselves into the fray, which is nice.

@Marko Markoko

Growth: Younger magi have more energy to throw themselves into studies into long hours of the night or vigorous travels and adventures. Whenever the character gains xp from a source of Advancement, by spending a point of Vitality, they double the amount of xp gained from that season. This can only be done once every other season.

I'd have it as a strict conversion from Vitality to XP, up to a maximum (say, 1 vitality gives x extra XP, and you may not spend more than y points).

The reason being that a doubling encourages min-maxing and grabbing the best book/teacher to double the XP, which, IMO, is not a desirable thing, and breaks my suspension of disbelief.
Also, this often means they have little incentive to use this on adventure XP, which, as a personal preference, should be encouraged (Young Magi going out and doing things).
Last, this is harder to adjust than a simple conversion: If you settle on, say, 1 vitality for 10xp, twice per year (meaning that a magus 5 years younger and spending all on this will mostly be the equal of his elder in 7 and a half years) and finds that this is too much, you can change it anyway you want, more easily than a doubling.

Hum… What do you think about this:
Up to twice per year, they can spend 1 point of vitality to gain 5 extra XP to spend as they choose, or to gain 10 extra adventure XP (subject to adventure XP restrictions)

@Marko Markoko

Acquisition: Two points is worth one pawn of any Form of Vis, and Four points is worth a pawn of any Technique. You must keep this vis and cannot spend it before play. If you just want to buy stuff, 1 point can be traded in for 1qp worth of goods.

I love this: They have vis stores, meaning wealth they saved other the years, but not much more qp.

@Marko Markoko

Grimoire - (1qp per four levels) You may conduct Lab Activities of different types &/or different Arts, so long as they all come from the same Grimoire. Use your lowest applicable Lab Total. Write up a list with a theme that makes sense and at least one texts that sucks (a spell you already have) and give me the option to add or subtract something.

Great idea, consider me sold on it!

I have trouble seeing how Tomes will work in respect to Grimoire, though. You may only learn one spell, with a +3 bonus, must take one that sucks, and the GM may add/delete one spell?

@Marko Markoko

Exotic: (1qp per 4 levels) For the most part, I don't care if purchased texts come from cannon or are of your design. You are paying for them. Exotic texts involve Mysteries and Minor Breakthroughs (a special Range or Duration). They come at a Premium cost, 1qp per 4 levels. If included in a Grimoire or Tome, the cost is 1qp per 3 levels. For a Casting Tablet, it is 1qp per 2 levels

I’ll have to think about it, I have trouble to see how this can be implemented.
Mystery Scripts have no level (and, IMO, should cost more than bonus/4).
Likewise for minor breakthroughs (keeping them at range/durations is a nice idea, btw, this’ll encourage exotic hermetic spells). Do you mean levels = “difficulty” of a minor breakthrough?

@Marko Markoko

Item of Quality - (qp equal to three times the bonus provided) The same rule of thumb applies to items of exceptional mundane craftsmanship that provide a bonus).

Nice!
Maybe too cheap, though: An IoQ giving a +5 bonus (which is on the high side for these) will only cost 15 points, slightly less than a lvl 15 lesser item, which must account for uses/day. OTOH, these aren’t hard to make… Well, keep it like this

@Marko Markoko

• Rare - (twice normal value) Items that are still Hermetic but require a special Virtue or Mystery
• Very Rare - (three times equivalent value) Non Hermetic Items, not that they are more powerful, just that they are expensive because they are scarce in the Hermetic Economy.

Likewise, I like it. You’ll maybe have to keep an eye out, but, at worst, it’s a nice start.

@Marko Markoko

Laboratory - During Development, you can spend time Refining and Customizing your Lab, or you may spend q.p.v. to have it done without occupying your time. Each cycle, you must spend a season reestablishing your Lab, or pay the cost in q.p.v

• Large Lab - (qp equal to 10 times the pyramid value of Size) Size must be paid for separately, even if you do the rest of the work yourself.
• Refinement - (qp equal to Refinement x 10, up to a maximum of your Magic Theory -3)
• Virtues - (10qp Minor, 20qp Major) Maximum Virtues equals Size + Refinement, adjusted for by Flaws taken at no cost. You may benefit from a number of Flaw points equal to your Magic Theory score.

I have trouble understanding this.
During development, you can spend time to improve you lab beyond basic, as normal, OR spend qp to have someone else do it.

Then, each cycle thereafter, if you want to keep the improvements, you must either waste one season, OR spend again the cost in qp, or else, your lab reverts to Basic?
Am I right?

[Xavi]

@The Fixer

Xavi: lol
I, too, was surprised that Roberto gave the “Join or Die” to what are probably Hedge Magi.

And that, sir, is what we are If the Order did what Roberto just did on a regular basis the number of magi would be around 20,000 not 1,200 Just the fire brothers can increase the size of the order by 10% if they join in :mrgreen: or by 50% if Roberto is scared enough to offer joining in to the whole almogaver company

[Marko_Markoko]

@Xavi

@The Fixer

Xavi: lol
I, too, was surprised that Roberto gave the “Join or Die” to what are probably Hedge Magi.

And that, sir, is what we are If the Order did what Roberto just did on a regular basis the number of magi would be around 20,000 not 1,200 Just the fire brothers can increase the size of the order by 10% if they join in :mrgreen: or by 50% if Roberto is scared enough to offer joining in to the whole almogaver company

Roberto, as of yet, has no idea what your power level is. Throwing flames is pretty radical for a supernatural ability, but still, if that's all it is then it is not that big of an issue. But if you are part of a cult that involves Gifted hedgies &/or a cult that can initiate further magical abilities, then we have a problem. Granted, he is not well familiar with the legalities nor has he ever run into this situation before. There are examples in cannon of a hedge tradition serving in submission to the Order of Hermes. Which is what you are claiming to have once been. But there is currently no oversight or supervision akaik.
But mainly he is most concerned that you are messing around on his island

[Xavi]

We have a problem of jurisdiction here, then.

[Marko_Markoko]

What we've got here is.., a failure to communicate.

[Marko_Markoko]

@The Fixer

Marko: Read it all! Nice work, I hope I didn’t miss anything too important.

Thanx
I am working on one more revision. I want to simplify the whole thing and nip a rules bloat problem. I came up with a new formula that just measures Vitality, creating a magus at maximum age limits leaves you with a minimal score. Magi older than that should be NPCs, and as such can be just gifted what is appropriate by fiat.

You might want to do similar rules for non-magi.

That comes next

I have trouble understanding this.
During development, you can spend time to improve you lab beyond basic, as normal, OR spend qp to have someone else do it.

Then, each cycle thereafter, if you want to keep the improvements, you must either waste one season, OR spend again the cost in qp, or else, your lab reverts to Basic?
Am I right?

Yeah, but I decided that is stupid and adds an unneeded complication. I want to simplify that whole thing too.

[Xavi]

Just in case, Arnau does NOT want or pretend to be a member of the Order.

I, Xavi, even want it LES than Arnau. So if all this was a plan to get Arnau become a member of house flambeau, it is a big mistake.

[Marko_Markoko]

@Xavi

Just in case, Arnau does NOT want or pretend to be a member of the Order.

I, Xavi, even want it LES than Arnau. So if all this was a plan to get Arnau become a member of house flambeau, it is a big mistake.

You would be an Ex-Miscellanea at best.
But still, just as long as it is understood that your tradition of hedgies must ever be subordinate to the Order of Hermes, then we are fine.
But I am all ears to other metagame solutions

[Xavi]

No need to be subordinate. The Brothers regularly work for hermetics, but that is it. They work for mundanes as well. Most of the time they work for mundanes, in fact. Will sleep on what to answer, but this is not going how I expected. And I do not like it

[Marko_Markoko]

We can fix it to a point where you like it, no worries.
It was pointed out to me that Roberto is being too legalistic, and though he may be in the legal right, he is a person more concerned with ethics and morality than legalities.
So the pragmatic solution is for Roberto to some how realize or be reassured that you pose no threat to his home, no threat to magi of the Order, and that your actions will not implicate or endanger the Order.
Does that sound reasonable?

[Xavi]

Actually the OoH has no authority at all on mundane matters, so he is wrong. The location (including Roberto's lab) belong to king Jaume, and Pere d'Urgell as his representative in the islands. As I am the representative of Pere, so the land belongs to me (Arnau), not to him (Roberto). He is being legalistic, but he is so blatantly wrong that I was going to EXPEL him from the Balearic islands on treat of informing the Iberian tribunal that the king forbids Hermetics to set foot on the islands and disbands all covenants in his domains (hello, Barcelona) for the next 100 years informing them that it was Roberto's fault that this was the case, but decided to sleep on it. Really long crappy day Read you all tomorrow.

Good night

[Marko_Markoko]

One more time. I want to simplify and shorten the whole thing. The ending vis is fine, I just want to fix the whole "Final Bonus" deal. Forget Achievement. Save that idea for possible future NPC magi. I will set the numbers to only generate a Vitality score. This is only a reward for creating younger magi. Pushing the max limits of age, you are already rewarded with power and experience, so there is no need for a bonus extra.

Vitality Bonus
[tab][/tab]Your Vitality is based upon your relative youth, how far from the possible maximum you held yourself back from. Age brings wisdom and power, and the system already rewards that well. Youth brings energy and potential, Vitality. Calculate your Vitality using the following formula.

[center]Potential Vitality = 142 - (Full Age + Hermetic Age + (5 x Cycles developed))[/center]
[center]Vitality Points = Pyramid Value of Vitality Potential, as if it were an Art.[/center]

[tab][/tab]The youngest possible maga, fresh from gauntlet at age 22, will have a score of 15. The oldest magus within limits, gauntlet at age 36 with 35 years of experience in seven short cycles, will have a score of 1.

The Vitality Score in Play
[tab][/tab]Your Vitality will never increase, it will only decrease. Save these points and use them wisely. These are reserved for when your character needs a little extra boost, but once spent they are never recovered. In play, they may be used in various ways. You can use one or more applications &/or multiple instances of the same application, but this is a sure way to quickly waste all these points.

• Restore Confidence: When you are depleted to zero points of confidence remaining, you can spend a point of Vitality to instantly recover three points. This is best if you need to use one or more of them right away, otherwise you should have just waited.
• Resist & Recover Fatigue: You can spend a point of Vitality in place of spending a Fatigue Level (long or short term), or to quickly recover a level (instantly in that round).
• Survival: When something happens that would otherwise kill or cripple the character (injury, evil magic, aging crisis, etc), spending a point of Vitality will insure that the character actually survives and recovers from their injuries without permanent after effects.
• Advancement: By spending a point of Vitality, the character can manage to squeeze in an additional season's worth of activity in a year. This isn't a "fifth season". Rather, it is the culmination of extra time put into a side project. As such, this side project is limited to Study, being Taught, Practice, Spells, Writing/Crafting, and Charged Items. Any sort of vis handling, even study from vis, requires a solid block of time. Just as fluff, in the middle of a story you can crank out this side project in a month all at once. The math is the same, four regular seasons and a Vitality point spent to accomplish a fifth project.
• Resist Aging: If you didn't like your Aging roll, you may spend a Vitality point to disregard it.

[Marko_Markoko]

@Xavi

Actually the OoH has no authority at all on mundane matters, so he is wrong. The location (including Roberto's lab) belong to king Jaume, and Pere d'Urgell as his representative in the islands. As I am the representative of Pere, so the land belongs to me (Arnau), not to him (Roberto). He is being legalistic, but he is so blatantly wrong that I was going to EXPEL him from the Balearic islands on treat of informing the Iberian tribunal that the king forbids Hermetics to set foot on the islands and disbands all covenants in his domains (hello, Barcelona) for the next 100 years informing them that it was Roberto's fault that this was the case, but decided to sleep on it. Really long crappy day Read you all tomorrow.

Good night

I understand now. You are totally misunderstanding me. This has nothing at all to do with Mundane Authority or who the land legally belongs too. It is all about Magical Authority. You are a Hedge Wizard. The Code of Hermes gives me certain instructions and tolerances concerning dealing with hedge wizards. Your presence here, and blatant use of magic in from of all the villagers to see, honestly causes him to worry. If left unchecked, you could bring ruin upon him and his sodales, and it would be Roberto's fault for not doing anything about it.
And I might suggest that Order of Hermes Lore does not substitute for Code of Hermes.