General Table Talk

That image of Antonio with the women after him for some reason made me think of the Star Trek Episode, "I, MUDD".

HARCOURT FENTON MUDD!!! x500

:laughing:
Actually, I had the same image in my mind. I just couldn't remember the specific episode :smiley:

:open_mouth:

:laughing:

Well played, you sneaky Q! Well played indeed. My jaw dropped and I had to get up and exclaim in a room by myself.

loooooooool

Good one!

Whew! I am now caught up on everything I missed since the council meeting and the recent induction of new members etc. Lots of good stuff in there people!

In the reading I did to catch up I noted people had some OOC confusion/uncertainty concerning Ludovico and what precisely his IC reputation/history is. I can't speak for the stuff beyond the flaws ( Marco would be a better judge ) but I would willingly clear up what 'they' mean. At least in my view. :wink:

The 'Infamous Master' flaw I took to reflect the 'tainted' nature of his lineage in the eyes of many as, a few generations back, his lineage can be traced to Tasgillia. For those that don't know she was the ringleader of the Tytalan faction of Infernal Goetists that was seen as the 'corruption of the House' etc etc. So, given his lineage, I see that as some folks would likely think he would be 'predisposed to sin' as it were. His Mater is/was Mercatora of Rellantali who... has a less than sterling reputation herself.

Cabal Legacy is in relation to Ludovico's very earnest study of the original Goetic magics of the Titanoi. He is rather proud and unusually forthright about the fact that practices those arts and phrases it as studying the lore/magic of the Founder. This is part of the source of his Pagan ways and rather dark manner at times. Also the source of his 'Incomprehensibility' as his understanding of magic is -thoroughly- based in spirit magic, and -all- of his spells fluff-wise consist of summoning spirits to perform services.

Note that this is, in Marko's campaign, an offshoot and different branc of study than the 'normal' Titanoi most of whom have reinvented themselves as more mainstream hermetic theurgists, moving away from Goetic magics. Ludovico is blatantly defiant against this trend and sees it as an introduction of flawed teaching and compromising to 'modern' pressure weakness in general in the Order. Or in other words, he thinks Tytalus' magic should be good enough for his fellows. It certainly is good enough for him.

He is also a proponent of a Titanoi form of 'Certamen' wherein a spirit is summoned into a circle and the two summoners square off on either side. Both attempt to control the spirit until one succeeds and turns it against the other.

Take all of that wherever it is IC for you to do so, I just wanted to be forthright about it all OOCly. :smiley:

Just remember that if you are challenged to certamen, the traditional form is used unless you both chose to do something else. Just as flambeau have their own form used only among flambeau. Queasitors are not going to uphold your custom invented form of the duel.

It is also going to get you very much distrusted and hated as you are basically claiming to be proud of the lineage and course of study that the order MARCHED to totally eliminate from the order as diabolistic. There is very good chance one or both the tribunals around Andorra will march you.

Proud of Tasgillia and diabolism, no... proud of his Founder and his original teachings, yes.

Do note that you are conflating the Goetic tradition of Tytalus and the diabolic corruption of Tasgillia into one thing in this statement, which... is an inaccurate portrayal. Unless you would posit that Tytalus himself was a diabolist? Some might hold that view, but I don't think it is accurate. Goetia has immediate 'potential' for diabolism, if you want to pursue it, or are incautious. It is not inherently in practice diabolism. In fact it is often seen as one of the magical traditions claiming to be the 'Heirs of Solomon' and his much vaunted spirit magic mastery.

Ludovico is proud of being a student of the original magic of Tytalus, and tryingto bring it back to his House. It is logical that he faces some suspicioun and resistance there. But he isn't coming out and saying 'Hey, let's all summon demons and drink Kool-Aid! It'll be great!'

The lineage survived through Kalliste ( Not the most popular Tytalus... ) who was cleared of accusations of diabolism by the Qs and then pushed into position as the next Prima. This is the line of descent that Ludovico comes from. So on the one hand his lineage are Goetists, but on the other they were ones that came forward against Titanoi diabolism in the first place.

He's refering himself to this: Ludovico may make this distinction (which may or not be accurate, especially as there's no proof tytalus had Goetic Magic, and, in some campains, he could have been a diabolist), but, as you said yourself, people don't see this that way:

This is a thing that seems absent from your speech about ludo, yet it describes very well how other magi might perceive you, which I think is what ladyP tried to point to you.

It is all a question of perception: You describe ludo's POW. But the POW of other magi could be very different, just as the truth.

Arawn,

Where can I find this collection spell you recently used?

Is all I've been able to find, but I'd like to have a more in-depth look at it before I continue commenting on the discussion of ACs/Range etc.

I think you mean POV ( Point of View )? Just confirming.

The issue I have is with an automatic assumption of diabolism and 'impending doom' of being marched or the like. This is a minor flaw that inflicts a level 3 bad reputation... not a 'Doomed' or 'Enemies: Order of Hermes' type of major flaw ( Hyperbole, I know, forgive me. ) I don't want to understate the flaw, which is why I posted to begin with, but neither do I desire to have it overstated or over emphasized. I suppose we could be having a difference of perception on how drastic the effects of the flaw should be however.

Enemies: order of Hermes means you are already marched and hunted.

You are basically publically boasting of lineage and arts focus that most of the order sees as Diabolitical. That the Queasitors have not brought you to tribunal means there is no evidence but your bad reputation is the sort that most mages not only will not trust you but many will be watching for the slightest hint of diabolic taint and behavior.

Basically people are looking for reasons to turn it into Enemies but as long as you aren't caught you are mostly safe. Meanwhile getting any political agenda passed or put forward will be very hard. This bad reputation is even worse at a covenant with strong tradition of helping to hunt down and killed the diabolistic shadow flambeau. PArt of why it is not enemies might even be that you are at Andorra with lots of hopilites visiting to check on you.

I just don't see it as being that overarchingly pressing / ominous, for a minor flaw. A minor flaw is not supposed to be that big of a deal. It is supposed to be annoying, and troublesome at times, but not a death sentence waiting to happen. That is 'Dark Secret' or something of the like.

To me a level 3 bad reputation doesn't mean everyone hates you, or everyone thinks you are intrinsically a diabolist waiting to get caught. That is just entirely too oppressive. I suppose I just see this quite differently.

Again, I don't agree with this view.

The Titanoi, and Tytalus himself, existed and were recruited into the Order as Goetists and 'then' -some- of them went Diabolic. If Tytalus/Tremere, or Guorna for that matter, were infernalists their magic could not have been integrated into Hermetic Theory by Bonisagus. They would never have been recruited, they would have been targetted en masse by the other Founders. Instead Guorna was recruited/interviewed and then followed by Tytalus/Tremere. Core Hermetic Spirit Magic Guidelines could, arguably, be said to be aspects of their magic that are now integrated into Hermetic Theory. Not Infernalism.

Then, as before, note that the lineage of Kalliste, also practicing Titanoi of the original school of training ( Goetists ), were cleared by the Qs of Diabolism and were thereby the only ones to survive the subsequent purge. Read, once again, Not Infernalists. The plain 'Hermetic Theurgist' types are not on the scene until the House attempts to 'reconstruct' the Titanoi and recruits people from other schools of theurgic training to bolster up the numbers and they supplant the old core of Goetic Titanoi. The new school of thought is 'mainstream' Titanoi now, imported in this process. The whole idea of the character of Ludo was an originalist Titanoi.

The taint I selected that flaw to represent is the fear in the order that Goetists/Titanoi, are 'predisposed' towards such infernal leanings, IMO. That if a purge can be necessary once, it could be necessary again, and you could have little warning as to when/why etc. Perhaps 'some' do genuinely not want people to practice the Titanoi lineage's magic, as they view it as too dangerous. However, IMO, they would know better than to call it a form of intrinsic infernalism/diabolism. Or for the mainstream to think that any given individual espousing it is intrinsically also covorting with malign forces. I don't say that there wouldn't be some that would think exactly that, but I do not think it would be the overarching perspective or that it would be quite such a 'hair trigger' kind of situation.

I found this rather amusing, personally. :smiling_imp:

I would point out that Carmen has Hermetic Birth Control, aka a Longevity Potion. She has been on a Vanity LP since she was 22 or 23 so she can maintain her good looks.

You know with the right timing, of the right application of Perdo Vim...

Orwith a finger in the eye or a spike heeled shoe in the nads...
:smiling_imp:
Bring it on big boy!

To take my own advice, Magic resistance as target.

MR is nasty that if you are in the realm a person is aligned to, you need to beat the parma rating with casting (aura doesn't help or hinder since it adds to both MR and casting roll). This is why there are indirect spells or arcane connections (shed some blood on a weapon and you have huge penetration). Remember it was the sword of a hobbit and greed of a gollum that took down the Nazgul and Sauron, not the spells of Gandalk. If you go by D&D, high level monsters are often easier to beat with protection spells and weapons attack since they have magical immunities and resistance. Powerful dragons, Archmages and Efreeet are often tricked, defeated in a round about way and cleverness.

Use pit of gaping earth (it killed a kid once because damage is d10+1 per 2 feet fallen so 9 foot hole is d10+4 damage with explosion can cause 18-20 damage. There is rego te spell that fling rocks with bullet force (my mage in Ad Fon sends three rocks with incredible force as weapon).

Get a weapon talisman if you are focused on being battle mage that your MR applies against any spell against weapons striking and 1 hit gives you blood for x4 to your pentration (more if you can do sympathetic connections too). Use illusions to trick your foe into stupid moves.

IF you always go for the frontal assault with magic, there will be problems. Note, Ameline has beaten the lesser shadows with a light spell, not killing them. Sometimes cleverness works instead of brute force. No magic resistance stops it.

My vote regarding this would be for the ( common I believe ) house rule that magic resistance only blocks effects/modifiers that are magical. i.e. the dot would disappear while the sword is within the boundary of MR. Or, if the sword were on fire, mechanically the fire would deal no additional damage unless the effect penetrated. But the sword, assuming it is normal/nonmagical, is not impeded by MR alone... for that you need a ward.