Do the components constitute a game limit. E.G. If all 60 pawns of vis are in player hands (as in the beginning of a 5 player game) is the Regio considered to be "empty?"
If so, what rule mechanics should be used when a vis collection will run dry in mid-action?
If not, can extra components be purchased separately?
Along these same lines, if you are playing with 5 players and just one person has a single token saved from a previous round, it's impossible for each player to add 12 more as instructed to start the next round.
Just got an email on this from Michelle. Not to steal her thunder, but it seems the bit about 12 vis per tribunal is an "oopsie." Also, she recommended using some of the spare voting pogs as 5-vis markers. I may spray-paint 10 of my vis markers silver to achieve the same effect without confusing new players with using the same chits for two different things, or just get some glass beads to be voting tokens and use the voting tokens which come with the game as the 5-vis pieces.
Hmmm... in the RPG, a queen of vis is 100 pawns, and a rook is 10 pawns...should a 5-pawn amount be a "bishop" or a "kinight?"
So what is the intended rule? Is it start with 12 and only get more through actions?
She didn't specify precisely. Her exact words were...
"Most likely the errata will say not to give ANY extra vis each tribunal, and to use extra voting tokens as 5-pt vis tokens if needed."
...which worries me slightly. Not that I necessarily think that's a bad idea, but because it seems they haven't yet made up their minds...which makes me wonder about the thoroughness of playtesting...
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...which worries me slightly. Not that I necessarily think that's a bad idea, but because it seems they haven't yet made up their minds...which makes me wonder about the thoroughness of playtesting...
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I've been in a couple of the playtests. They do a good job. How many have you been in?
I cannot think of ANY game company that does not have errata on their games. Rules lawyers, unforseen numbers of players and/or an entire new tanget on the rules always crop up after playtest. Steve Jackson Games has errata web pages, Twilight Creations has Muliti-page faq/errata. Wizards, oh my god, I get an email a week with "this weeks errata". WizKids, Z-Man Games, ect, ect, ect. And they all have playtest teams also...
Don't grip, join in. Ask Michelle if ya can join in on the fun.
Pat
SO 0435 / MIB 1987 / Minion 1108 / Cheapass Demo Monkey
I'm not ragging on Atlas here, though...sorry if it came across wrong. [edit...I just went back and re-read what I wrote, and it's easy to see how you took it that way. When I said I was worried about the thorughness of playtesting, I didn't mean for the game in general, just for the new fix. My bad; I wasn't particularly clear.]
It's just that there are two sorts of errata, to my experience. There are printing problems, where the game has been thoroughly tested, problems found, fixed, re-tested, and all is running very smoothly...and then old or wrong copy gets sent to the printer for whatever reason. That's easily fixed, because the fix is already "in the can" so to speak. You just publish the proper rules.
The other sort, though, is something nobody anticipated, ... the fixes to these either will be properly tested after the problem is found (in which case the fix is slow to be published) or published without adequate testing (in which case, it may simply be a bad fix...or not, you may get lucky).
My worry is that this is the latter sort,...
If you playtesed it, maybe you can fill us in. Are the rules as published the same as the rules you used in testing? When you were playtesting, were you told a specific number of components which would come in the box?
Me either, Pat. As I said, I'm not picking on them. In fact, I've been happier with Atlas's productions thus far than with many or even most other companies...which is why I bought the game as soon as it hit the shelves. Usually I'll wait until the first couple FAQ's are up, read several reviews, or until I've played someone else's copy.
Atlas, though, has always had a rather good production record in my book. They're entitled to an "oopsie."
I'm just worried that this is an unforseen problem, and the fix must now made on the fly, rather than just a printing problem, where the difficulty was identified in playtesting, fixed, retested, works, and just got "boogered up" in printing.
Most of my playtesting has been done for companies that produce tabletop miniatures/games, and I see this sort of thing all the time. We get the rules, we use proxy miniatures, and then we find out that the miniatures as released don't reflect the rules. Nothing we could do as playtesters, since we didn't have adequate information. Honestly, the only playtesting I've done where there wasn't a similar problem was for a card-only game where we could get printable cards.
As for joining in the fun, I'd love to. Michelle, assuming you read this, and you actually want another playtester, you have my e-mail address. I don't mind signing an NDA. On the other hand, in all fairness, I'll let you know up front I'm still playtesting for an indirect competitor...although you don't do miniatures, and that's all they do these days.
--Andy
Just received my Grand Tribunal this afternoon - and I'd really been anticipating its arrival across the Atlantic (if they're printed i China, I guess it's almost crossed the globe by now). So this evening, me and my merry band of an Ars Troupe opted to try it out.
We had a couple of games - in between checked this forum for some answers. There seems to be some unclear rules - some of them I'll post in seperate threads - but for one I'll recomend that one doesn't receive the extra 12 vis after each tribunal. We dropped it after reading this thread. The game mechanics are very different if you do and much more interesting (in the first game we played no one ever needed to extract or gather vis) - and as earlier stated it seems to have been the original intention of the developers.
Enjoy!
Nope, as stated this is not one that I tested. Wasn't trying to come accross as a hard ass either, I'm sorry if I did. As for the rest, I'll get this game sooner or later, but my passion is card games more than board.
Dungeoneer, Lunch/Beer Money, Cthuhlu500, Lets Kill, Munchkin (shameless plug). I playtested ***** ** ***** and *** ****.
Damn NDF, it works even on the forums....
Pat
SO Godwalker / MIB 1987 / Minion of TC and
Cheapass Demo Monkey