Help with a new spell

Okay, making a spell that makes a replica of a magus out of sand. No imaginum because the magus looks like a sand statue anyway... Spell will replicate any action the magus makes, walking, swinging sword, picking up an object, which could look weird if there isn't one there to get ect.

Confusion of the Sand Magus

ReTe(Co) 15

R: Touch
D: Dia
T: Part

Creates a replica out of a pile of sand of the caster. This requires a fineness roll for detail. The replica duplicates all actions the caster makes, example, caster waves his right hand replica does the same.

(Control dirt in a very unnatural way 3, +1 touch, +1 Dia, +1 part, +1 Req.)

Any thoughts? The use of this spell is mostly to confuse enemys and to be able to fight from below standing upside down so the replica will mimic movments. The magus has created a series of spells that let him move freely in, see through, and breath sand.

Part of me wants this to be concentration, because you're modifying things as they happen, rather than making a static representation of the magus...

but I don't know that I'd require the Corpus requisite, as you're not really giving it anything Corpus dependent, are you? not that I can see... so in that sense, a magnitude could be dropped since the form is really just cosmetic, but you might need to replace it with a muto requisite to account for the cohesion the sand has? Part of me says that the cohesion is rego, but part says that the nature of the sand must be changed, because a small trough of sand wouldn't support a sword well, or do much than scatter on the wind if struck...this spell holds it together with rego, and gives it enough substance to manipulate objects with muto...

Just some initial thoughts.


I opted for corpus to emulate anothers body, I didn't know how else to fit it in. I considered mentum but decided it wasn't realy affecting the mind in any way.
Muto does seem like it may be neccisary, though I'm prety sure you can pack sand tight enough to hold a form, muto would make it easier.
I didn't want to go the rout of concentration because I was hopeing for a mimicery spell. But I definatly see where you are coming from with corpus not being necissary. I just put it in for good messure of emulating a human for amnd movments.

Wow. Quite some multicast potential here: Make the spell group, multicast it in front of the magus, give the dudes metal weapons and see a shieldwall at full effect!! I like it :slight_smile: Advise: do not mess with a Desert Master :wink:



Yeah, the body form is cosmetic in my mind, so Co isn't needed for a requisite, but you want the sand to stand up to some punishment, to have some more cohesion and strength than sand might usually have, so I think a Muto requisite is more appropriate...Think about wet sand at the beach... it might hold a shape, but do you think it would easily hold a broom handle? and not crumble on the thin edge? If you hit it with a shovel?

But not having the concentration...that's tougher in my mind-- you have an ongoing effect that mirrors you without concentration...the only spell that does something similiar that I can think of off the top of my head is Wizard's Sidestep and it does have a magnitude bump for the image changing and the moved image matching changes... Given that, I think at least a bump for complexity isn't out of the question.

I'd say this:

Base 3, +1 touch, +1 Diam, +1 part, +1 Req (Mu), +1 for complexity, giving you a Re(Mu)Te 20 spell... with a finesse roll to determine how detailed the simulacrum's appearance is, or matches the casters.

Not much of a shift, but that's my opinion.


It does have some serious drawbacks - consider: The simulacum can never be more than an armsspan away (since it mimics all movement and has range touch...)
I considered adding magnitudes for complexity, but I don't really think it should be necesary. However, one might consider requiring that the simulacium contains an AC to the caster (typically a caster would spit on the simulacium) so that it can follow his movements.

I agree with +1 complexity because the changing statue.
Mu doesn't needed because the sand remains sand.
Co and concentration don't needed.

I say it's straight ReTe, +1 for complexity. NoCo or Mu needed. However, I think it does call for a Duration of Concentration as you direct movement, or an Intellego requisite so the sand-form knows how to move. Or maybe another +1M for complex instructions.

I don't think Muto is necessary. The force required for said cohesion is the Rego effect maintaining the sand in it's desired shape/movements. In order for any physical action to deform the sand at all it would have to exceed the strength of the Rego effect in it's direct action on the sand. That said, serf's parma, I'm not certain exactly how strong a Rego spell like that would be when compared to other, probably mundane, actions/effects. Though I would be inclined to say the spell would attempt to repair/reform the sand into the spells desired shape after there was any deformation. i.e. the effect that is shaping/directing the sand ( on a continous basis ) is still running, and would move the sand right back where it was after the deformation. An increase in complexity I agree with.

I'm starting to agree with the no muto or corpus. I also don't see intellego seeing as you aren't trying to discern anything about the sand itself, mentem is the only thing I can see that would read the mind of the caster, however I think that increasing complexity should cover both this and copying movement. So Maybe increase complexity and drop the requisites and leave it at diameter?

Yes, give +1 complexity but no requisites. Duration can be anything. If you want diameter it's OK, too.

Concentration is usually a mistake for a combat spell, unless you have ... uh.... ... (whatever that spell is that maintains Concentration for you - drat.)

Plus, it'd be unusual for a combat to last longer than a diameter. Hardly unheard of, but not typical.

Sustain the Demanding Spell


Confusion of the Sand Magus

ReTe 15

R: Touch
D: Dia
T: Part

Creates a replica of the maga out of a pile of sand. This requires a fineness roll for fine details. The replica mimics all actions the caster makes, example, caster waves his right hand replica does the same.

(Control dirt in a very unnatural way 3, +1 touch, +1 Dia, +1 part, +1 complexity)

The problem I see with not including muto is that the sand, without being altered a little to give it some kind of cohesion, is going disperse fairly easily as it is attacked. Blows will scatter the material and sever arms-- which would then fall in a shower of dust. (I'm thinking of a forearm getting hit with an axe or a greatsword, something that could split the psuedo-limb.)

By giving it a muto requisite, you make it more durable, more likely to sustain a strike.

Think of it this way-- if you had a dried mud statue of a person, and you struck the out-stretched arm with an axe, you'd likely cut that arm off and it would fall. There's nothing in sand's nature that would ordinarily cause it to stick together. Sure, the spell is keeping it in the form, but it's not a container, it doesn't free it from the observed natural behavior of objects...Cut a branch, a limb, a weed, they all fall. The rego gives it the shape, the motion, but to allow this simulacrum to withstand blows is an additional step, in my opinion-- one that either requires a change in the nature of the sand, such that it is more of a sticky liquid that flows with the impact of blows and maintains its shape, or it is an additional effect of the rego (and requires an additional magnitude of complexity) that does not only draw up the sand into the appropriate shape, but holds it together despite any violent attempt to disperse it.

either way, I think this needs to be a ReTe 20 rather than a 15.


I think the guideline covers such effects, too: 'Control dirt in a very unnatural way'.

Sure, but most spells do a single thing. This one does three:

  1. Pull the sand together to create a likeness
  2. Hold the sand together in the face of violent strikes
  3. Move the sand in mirrored motion of the caster.

Teeth of the Earth Mother starts at a similar base 3, and includes a +2 for fancy effect...and it does three things:

  1. change the earth to marble
  2. shape it into pointed teeth
  3. drive the teeth up into the air

As far as earlier comments on not requiring intelligo, look at Image from the Wizard Torn, the ReIm spell-- this isn't too terribly different, the concept is there, and it requires intelligo if the caster wants to see through the simulacrum... but I don't think that's exactly necessary, since that magus has spells for seeing through ground, though adding it would eliminate some penalties I would think might be there for the removed/inverted combat...

Consider, also, Lord of the Trees-- that one demands concentration, so I think the magnitude bump discussed for shifting to diameter is warranted, but it's successor, Freeing the Striding Tree, is a magnitude bump to give additional movement.

Look at Fog of Confusion, MuAu... it does multiple things,

  1. Turn the Fog to mist
  2. create the harassing noises
  3. keep the mist in place

Each additional effect adds to the magnitude in the form of requisites. I think in this case there are enough additional effects to warrant the bump. It's not just a mirrored sand statue, it's a mirrored sand statue that moves and withstands being hacked up with weapons. That's several effects that all enhance the primary effect, they justify a bump.

ReTe 3 + 1 touch, +1 diameter, +1 part, +2 complexity (mirrors motion without concentration, maintains form despite attacks.)


If I went for sand warriors, I would change how they work in combat. Puncturing and cutrting attacks would have few effects on them (the attack passes through them) while smashing attacks (maces, clubs) and shovels can cause massive damage, by removing significant ammounts of sand per strike.

Butr appart from this, I agree with ben.

follow the guidlines for CrIm, making the image move or make noise at your direction as you concentrate adds +2 magnitudes

Then look at Phantasm of the human form (CrIm) which adds an additional +1 for intricacy

so your left with a final:
Base 3, +1 touch, +1 Diam, +1 part, +2 move under your command,
+1 intricacy(depending on how elaborate you want it to look)

Final ReTe level 20 or 25

That would be pretty cool flavor, I'd be down for that...though I think there's probably not too much functional difference in a shovel and a battle axe, but that's pretty much nitpicking-- definitely piercing attacks like arrows and crossbows, spears, daggers, gladii, those sorts of things would be limited to doing no more than a light wound or maybe have the wound result reduced by two categories. Axes and shovels could have damage increased by +7, other bludgeoning attacks increased by +5? I'm completely giving a wild guess here, and it's something you'd want to test, but it makes for good flavor on an interesting effect.

As long as you're changing it up a little, I'd shift the "mirroring effect" to "acts as directed," otherwise it makes an excellent marker for where to drop the highest possible PeTe effect and listen for the he plunges down the well. Even if he can move through the ground without too much effort, falling far is going to leave a mark, and allowing it to move as directed is fairly equivalent in my mind.