Hogsmeade Tavern

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Jonathan.Link

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Jonathan.Link

If you were given the correct perms, edit the first post. Trogdor had an issue in his saga, he couldn't sticky stuff

I don't even see in my User Control Panel anywhere to show permissions. So...I guess an email to whomever is in order, then.

It's not something that you can see in the UCP.

If they assigned you the correct permissions to moderate the forum, you can edit the first post and there are buttons that allows one to set a thread to sticky, announce, other stuff...

I don't think I have the right permissions. This is what I see when I go to edit a post, and this is what i see when I go to make a new post.

I've sent an email to staff for help, but it's Friday evening, so I'll be surprised if get anything back by Tuesday.

[callen]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Isn't that only a problem if the Aura in her lab is 6+?

Oops. I mixed up the islands. I see now. There is only the common lab on the little island, all the other labs will be in an Aura of 3.

Speaking of labs, is anyone capable of starting with a nice CrTe spell to make some new lab spaces?

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Isn't that only a problem if the Aura in her lab is 6+?

Oops. I mixed up the islands. I see now. There is only the common lab on the little island, all the other labs will be in an Aura of 3.

3, unless the troupe decides to buy a level or two of the Aura Boon.

@callen

Speaking of labs, is anyone capable of starting with a nice CrTe spell to make some new lab spaces?

If not, there's a nice CrHe(Te) spell in the Library that should do the trick.

[jebrick]

@callen

What does everyone think of a Minor Magical Focus in transmuted air? Transmuted air would be something that is not air and has been turned into air or that is air and has been turned into something other than air. It would not include changing fog to make it impenetrable, for example, as that is fog and not air. It would include some air elementals since some are rarefied air, but not lightning ones for example because those are not rarefied air. Thus there is plenty of Auram to which it would not apply. It's mostly a chunk of MuAu and some MuFo(Au) and working with stuff already transformed. It's certainly smaller than MuAu as a whole, so it meets that requirement. Is it clearly defined enough?

I think it would be extremely limited. Would any gas fit into the definition?

[callen]

@jebrick

@callen

What does everyone think of a Minor Magical Focus in transmuted air? Transmuted air would be something that is not air and has been turned into air or that is air and has been turned into something other than air. It would not include changing fog to make it impenetrable, for example, as that is fog and not air. It would include some air elementals since some are rarefied air, but not lightning ones for example because those are not rarefied air. Thus there is plenty of Auram to which it would not apply. It's mostly a chunk of MuAu and some MuFo(Au) and working with stuff already transformed. It's certainly smaller than MuAu as a whole, so it meets that requirement. Is it clearly defined enough?

I think it would be extremely limited. Would any gas fit into the definition?

Well, turning air into any other gas would qualify. But generally no other gas would qualify, nor would manipulating or creating air that is not/has not been transmuted in some way. Sure, it's limited, but that is supposed to be the case with Minor Magical Focus. However, though it is limited, there are plenty of ways to use it, and that would be one of the two focuses of Beatrix's magic, the other being the planned metamagic stuff I've mentioned.

A question that does come up is if we allow non-traditional familiars. For example, HoH:MC suggests plant familiars for some Criamon magi. Would other (not traditional animals) non-intelligent magical beings be OK? In this case, I'm particularly thinking about air elementals. I like the flavor that comes with it. Of course, these are somewhat self-limiting because high-might elementals are extraordinarily large, making the required lab totals for binding them become extraordinarily high.

[Bitter]

@callen

What does everyone think of a Minor Magical Focus in transmuted air? Transmuted air would be something that is not air and has been turned into air or that is air and has been turned into something other than air. It would not include changing fog to make it impenetrable, for example, as that is fog and not air. It would include some air elementals since some are rarefied air, but not lightning ones for example because those are not rarefied air. Thus there is plenty of Auram to which it would not apply. It's mostly a chunk of MuAu and some MuFo(Au) and working with stuff already transformed. It's certainly smaller than MuAu as a whole, so it meets that requirement. Is it clearly defined enough?

I think it's a valid minor focus, a very potent one with with plenty of application, but that's not a problem for me. As mentioned in a previous thread , MuFo(Au) is very close to Perdo and MuAu(Fo) is very close to Creo and some consider this too strong.

[jebrick]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Jonathan.Link

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Jonathan.Link

If you were given the correct perms, edit the first post. Trogdor had an issue in his saga, he couldn't sticky stuff

I don't even see in my User Control Panel anywhere to show permissions. So...I guess an email to whomever is in order, then.

It's not something that you can see in the UCP.

If they assigned you the correct permissions to moderate the forum, you can edit the first post and there are buttons that allows one to set a thread to sticky, announce, other stuff...

I don't think I have the right permissions. This is what I see when I go to edit a post, and this is what i see when I go to make a new post.

I've sent an email to staff for help, but it's Friday evening, so I'll be surprised if get anything back by Tuesday.

Are you able to see the moderator's link by the upper left had side of the page ( by the Atlas logo)? If so, you can use it to stickie and lock topics.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

What does everyone think of a Minor Magical Focus in transmuted air? Transmuted air would be something that is not air and has been turned into air or that is air and has been turned into something other than air. It would not include changing fog to make it impenetrable, for example, as that is fog and not air. It would include some air elementals since some are rarefied air, but not lightning ones for example because those are not rarefied air. Thus there is plenty of Auram to which it would not apply. It's mostly a chunk of MuAu and some MuFo(Au) and working with stuff already transformed. It's certainly smaller than MuAu as a whole, so it meets that requirement. Is it clearly defined enough?

I'm having a bit of a time wrapping my head around this. It seems like there's an awful lot of room for interpretation there. If it's transforming air into another gas, or into another form of air (e.g. an Air Elemental), or into another element, and vice versa, that feels more like a Major Magical Focus than a Minor. Minor is generally "slightly narrower than a single Technique and Form combination", and this feels like it's substantially broader.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@jebrick

Are you able to see the moderator's link by the upper left had side of the page ( by the Atlas logo)? If so, you can use it to stickie and lock topics.

I can get to the Moderator Control Panel. If I go "Main", then "View Forum", it pulls up a list of all the threads, If I check the box by, say, Hogsmeade Tavern," my options on the "Select Desired Action" drop-down menu at the bottom are: Delete, Merge, Move, Copy, Lock, Unlock, and Resync. None of which seem right for what I'm trying to do.

[ironboundtome]

@callen

A question that does come up is if we allow non-traditional familiars. For example, HoH:MC suggests plant familiars for some Criamon magi. Would other (not traditional animals) non-intelligent magical beings be OK? In this case, I'm particularly thinking about air elementals. I like the flavor that comes with it. Of course, these are somewhat self-limiting because high-might elementals are extraordinarily large, making the required lab totals for binding them become extraordinarily high.

My 2c: I'd say allow them.
Isn't there a spirit familiar minor virtue in Mysteries and a similar one in one of the HoH books? As long as you're buying it with a virtue, it seems very reasonable. Having one without the virtue would be questionable.

[callen]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@callen

What does everyone think of a Minor Magical Focus in transmuted air? Transmuted air would be something that is not air and has been turned into air or that is air and has been turned into something other than air. It would not include changing fog to make it impenetrable, for example, as that is fog and not air. It would include some air elementals since some are rarefied air, but not lightning ones for example because those are not rarefied air. Thus there is plenty of Auram to which it would not apply. It's mostly a chunk of MuAu and some MuFo(Au) and working with stuff already transformed. It's certainly smaller than MuAu as a whole, so it meets that requirement. Is it clearly defined enough?

I'm having a bit of a time wrapping my head around this. It seems like there's an awful lot of room for interpretation there. If it's transforming air into another gas, or into another form of air (e.g. an Air Elemental), or into another element, and vice versa, that feels more like a Major Magical Focus than a Minor. Minor is generally "slightly narrower than a single Technique and Form combination", and this feels like it's substantially broader.

I'm fine if you want to disallow it. It is open to the same sorts of strong use as mMF animal categories, other mMF materials, etc.

As for it's scope, I would strongly disagree. If we look at just the MuAu stuff, air is only one of many things. Look at the example spells; only one of the five would qualify at all. Air doesn't include clouds, fog, rain, lightning, smoke, and other gases except to transform them into air. Of all the other MuFo stuff, MuFo(Au) specifically to air is an extremely small subset. So all of that is well under half the size of MuAu. The only CrAu I can think of is creating a single type of air elemental. InAu, PeAu, and ReAu would only work on transformed air and so would only apply in the lab when making extremely limited spells or apply when casting a less limited spell on a very small subset of things. Compare this to other listed mMF's. Wood. Transform anything into wood, transform wood into anything, create wood, detect/investigate wood (need not be transformed but could be), destroy wood (need not be transformed but could be), move/control wood (need not be transformed but could be). That's a significantly greater portion of Herbam than transmuted air is of Auram. Another one: wind. That's moving air, so air with a qualifier, and so is pretty comparable. Others: rain and lightning. They're not as omnipresent, but in terms of the fraction of Auram available they'r much broader.

As for worries, it's comparable to a lot of other things. mMF in wood, for example, can be used even more broadly. Turn things into wood and do whatever with them, or turn wood into things and do whatever with them, or just do whatever with wood directly. My suggestion only fits the first two of those three. That's not to say I cannot think of plenty of ways to use it well. Rather, it's that I can think of as many ways to use many canon examples of mMF similarly well. So, as I said, I'm fine with it being disallowed. I would guess that you would also disallow half the canon examples as well, right?

[callen]

@ironboundtome

@callen

A question that does come up is if we allow non-traditional familiars. For example, HoH:MC suggests plant familiars for some Criamon magi. Would other (not traditional animals) non-intelligent magical beings be OK? In this case, I'm particularly thinking about air elementals. I like the flavor that comes with it. Of course, these are somewhat self-limiting because high-might elementals are extraordinarily large, making the required lab totals for binding them become extraordinarily high.

My 2c: I'd say allow them.
Isn't there a spirit familiar minor virtue in Mysteries and a similar one in one of the HoH books? As long as you're buying it with a virtue, it seems very reasonable. Having one without the virtue would be questionable.

Sounds reasonable to require something different like a Virtue. Both Summoning and Spirit Familiar allow spirits as familiars in addition to some other benefits. Summoning allows for, well, summoning. Spirit Familiar grants a bunch of bonuses for the different cords. So likely such a Virtue would grant extra related benefits as well.

But I need to see for sure if the magical focus is accepted or not. That could necessitate moving away from Auram. We'll see.

[callen]

Seeing as someone else was considering a Failed Apprentice or similar, I was looking into my suggestion of an UnGifted Learned Magician. Then I double-checked the books. It looks like HMRE is fine but A&A is out, and A&A has all the stuff for experimental philosophy and medicine, the big part of the concept. So that suggestion is out. I'll debate some other companion ideas.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

I'm fine if you want to disallow it. It is open to the same sorts of strong use as mMF animal categories, other mMF materials, etc.

As for it's scope, I would strongly disagree. If we look at just the MuAu stuff, air is only one of many things. Look at the example spells; only one of the five would qualify at all. Air doesn't include clouds, fog, rain, lightning, smoke, and other gases except to transform them into air. Of all the other MuFo stuff, MuFo(Au) specifically to air is an extremely small subset. So all of that is well under half the size of MuAu. The only CrAu I can think of is creating a single type of air elemental. InAu, PeAu, and ReAu would only work on transformed air and so would only apply in the lab when making extremely limited spells or apply when casting a less limited spell on a very small subset of things. Compare this to other listed mMF's. Wood. Transform anything into wood, transform wood into anything, create wood, detect/investigate wood (need not be transformed but could be), destroy wood (need not be transformed but could be), move/control wood (need not be transformed but could be). That's a significantly greater portion of Herbam than transmuted air is of Auram. Another one: wind. That's moving air, so air with a qualifier, and so is pretty comparable. Others: rain and lightning. They're not as omnipresent, but in terms of the fraction of Auram available they'r much broader.

As for worries, it's comparable to a lot of other things. mMF in wood, for example, can be used even more broadly. Turn things into wood and do whatever with them, or turn wood into things and do whatever with them, or just do whatever with wood directly. My suggestion only fits the first two of those three. That's not to say I cannot think of plenty of ways to use it well. Rather, it's that I can think of as many ways to use many canon examples of mMF similarly well. So, as I said, I'm fine with it being disallowed. I would guess that you would also disallow half the canon examples as well, right?

I'm inclined to allow it, but I'm still fuzzy as to whether this allows you to transmute air into something else (i.e. a block of stone) or just transform it from one form of air into another. It sounds to me like the latter.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

A question that does come up is if we allow non-traditional familiars. For example, HoH:MC suggests plant familiars for some Criamon magi. Would other (not traditional animals) non-intelligent magical beings be OK? In this case, I'm particularly thinking about air elementals. I like the flavor that comes with it. Of course, these are somewhat self-limiting because high-might elementals are extraordinarily large, making the required lab totals for binding them become extraordinarily high.

I have no problem with that. Could be fun...or interesting.

[Quite_Possibly_a_Cat]

I'm gonna re-ask this here because I know my eyes glaze over the first few posts of character sheets with the "reserved blah blah blah" stuff. Can we start with a familiar bound? And if so what guidelines should we use?

On that note I'm not thinking of a learned magician. unGifted probably. Their magical AND learned. The Order is a perfect place for them to live and they probably have valuable skills for the Order. Perfect fit.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Quite Possibly a Cat

I'm gonna re-ask this here because I know my eyes glaze over the first few posts of character sheets with the "reserved blah blah blah" stuff. Can we start with a familiar bound? And if so what guidelines should we use?

Sorry. Yes, you can start with a Familiar. It will take two seasons of your development (one to track down and befriend the Familiar, and one to actually Bond it.) Might be best to do that in your last year of development, to get the best lab total you can.

As far as guidelines: use the normal rules for making a (presumably) magical creature, which are kind of all over the place: the main rulebook, Realms of Power: Magic, Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults, the Book of Mundane Beasts download, and the 4th edition Medieval Bestiary Revised (for stats on animals that aren't covered in 5th edition; in case of conflict, 5th Ed stats will out).

[Bitter]

I'll probably make a tortoiseshell lineage cat.

edit : as a familiar ofc.

[callen]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

I'm inclined to allow it, but I'm still fuzzy as to whether this allows you to transmute air into something else (i.e. a block of stone) or just transform it from one form of air into another. It sounds to me like the latter.

Yes, turning air into something would count. Again, I'm fine with it not being allowed so long as I know that is the plan for such mMF's.

I'm still debating the Auram-style character I had in mind versus a necromancer. I actually found an historical figure around this time who was thought to be into necromancy and so have rekindled some thoughts in that direction. I think it's cool when you can tie things in really well that way.

[callen]

[strike]I found this note on Wikipedia when reading about Yester Castle:

...Sir Hugo de Giffard. A grandson of the first Laird of Yester, he served as a guardian of the young Alexander III of Scotland, and was by repute a magician and necromancer...

I'm coming up with back-story quickly with this guy as her parens, which means moving away from House Mercere to Ex Miscellanea. Still definitely a Re/Vi-focused character as stated, just doing the necromancy thing instead of the Auram thing. This also avoids the troubles with the questions about the focus and familiar above. Everyone should be happy... if necromancy doesn't bother you. I have been considering Rigid Magic strongly at the same time, which would mean she doesn't start with a level-50 Aegis of the Hearth.

Edit: It seems the link on Wikipedia is incorrect due to a whole bunch having the same name. It looks like it was the son of the one linked who started Yester Castle and was known for necromancy. Still, I think I can rework some bits of this to keep things relatively close to what's written while retaining what I've come up with.[/strike]

Eh. Things started feeling a little abusive and less clear in direction. But I want to avoid the issues with Auram from above. I really liked the Mercere stuff I was planning before since that got her heavily involved with other magi. The children also make an interesting other piece. But I need a different piece. I had been debating raptors, and it looks like that would be different than Jebrick's dogs, etc. Plus I really wouldn't be focused on Animal, more on the Muto, Rego, and Vim I've always been planning.
[hr][/hr]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Sorry. Yes, you can start with a Familiar. It will take two seasons of your development (one to track down and befriend the Familiar, and one to actually Bond it.) Might be best to do that in your last year of development, to get the best lab total you can.

OK. Good to know. A few other things that would be relevant:

1. Can they start advancing once they've been bound?
2. What season, spring?
3. Are there Might limits, or just what can be bound? I'll warn you that that limit could be 40-45. I suppose others could go higher with really small familiars, but I'm talking about Size 0.
   [hr][/hr]Also, I saw the thread about home-made spells. Good to have one. Should we bother with spells that are just R/D/T-adjusted versions of standard spells?