HoH Societas: first impressions - Jerbiton

First off, congratulations to Timothy - it's a great chapter which I'm still poring over the nuances of. For those who liked Timothy's vision of Valnastium in SoI, this extends but also extrapolates into a really good outline for the Gently Gifted House.

There's a lot of material in here to use in Sagas.

City & Guild really complements this House and it sounds like Art & Academe would complete the picture. I'd also suggest getting a PDF copy of SoI just for the Valnastium section if you can.

With this you could probably run a whole Urban Saga in one city and never run out of ideas - Mythic Venice anyone... (see also Sir garlon/Andrew Gronosky's Palatini Saga site for ideas).

There are no Larta Magi. They've been expunged! Why, oh why?

There's also no detail on magi from other Houses being accepted into Jerbiton in their retirement (which I think was an idea put forward in ArM4) or if they leave their own House eg. Gorgiastics ex-Criamon. I'd always liked the idea of archmages "retiring" to spend their Twilight years in House Jerbiton...

I think I like it the best so far even though I'm a rabid hedge-wizard/Ex Msic fanatic, and I haven't even got through the bit on Mentem and Imaginem magic.

Regards,

Jarkman

Yes, I am really loving this book. I would be interested in learning why Larta mages were dropped, though not worried that they have been.

I seem to recall that Sanctuary of Ice started to show the Larta magi not so much as purely mundane artists or what not, but as craftsmen and artists touched by magic (through supernatural talents).

I like the idea of a house giving special status to certain mundanes but I was always a little uncertain about how the other houses allowed these mundanes under the aegis of the Order.

Not too upset to see them gone (if finally gone they are) but pleased that there is enough of the same old Jerbiton that we can easily incorporate those much valued and gifted artists into the saga if we find a use for them.

I'm not one of the authors on Art and Academe, and look forward to it as much as you, but as I was writing Jerbiton I knew that someone was doing Ars Magica art, and that it was best not to cripple whatever it is they want to do by claiming stuff in little one-line claims in HoH:S. I hope A&A has magical artisits, and talks about their relationship with the Order, but I have no idea, really, if it will.

As to why archmages don't join when they are old....well, there's not as much reason for it in the modern House structures, but I hope someone takes the idea up and uses it in something else. It's not that I conciously discarded it...but Bonisagus retiring to Valnastium doesn't seem to have made it through to this edition.

Fair enough. They are a controversial subject after all.

It's just that there was a reference in the Mercere section of HoH:TL.

Mind you there's plenty in the Jerbiton chapter already.

I guess I'll just have to wait for RoP:M for the Black Lineage (of cats)!

I suppose "Guests" of House Criamon and "Orbus Magi" of Ex-Misc fulfill this role to an extent, but I would have thought Gorgiastics might have at least got a mention but I suppose they don't really fit into the more refined conception of Jerbiton and are better as Ex Misc Orbi.

Regards,

Jarkman

No, you're right, I can see a lot of Gorgiastics going to House Jerbiton. It's the House of Worldliness, and also, its handily nearby, if you have your cisis of faith in the Cave of Twisting Shadows.

Someone should take some of your ideas and work them up for the open call...not me...someone else. You, maybe? :smiley:

At first: Don´t get me wrong I like Societas and I consider it a important Book,but....:

It makes it really difficult for already established Jerbitons ( and to a lesser Degree Tytali) to become House conform.

I´am refering to the sudden (? at least for me) orientation of House Jerbiton toward Byzanz and a lesser Degree toward beautiful living (?),
a concept I´am very troubled to even grasp.

In our Ars Campaign (which is now going into it´s fouth Year), we are in England shortly after the Normann Invasion, we got two Jerbiton both are quite agressive Nobles, one a displaced Saxon who at least is somewhat nepotistic and a castilian Knight who had something to do with the beginning Reconquista.
None of them is very subtle and manipulating (at least from my POV as GM). I think the Castilian will probatly need to be reconed into a Flambeau
(ouch).
I think the Saxon has two Cr/Me Spells,the Castillian none, and don´t even get me started about the pacifistic Nature of my two......

Anyway since we are a lot earlyer then the Canon Timeline, how did you
imagine the earlyer more militant Jerbitons ?

There's nothing in the characters you mentioned that says they're anything other than Jerbiton. That's their heritage, not their personality. So you shouldn't be looking to do that unless you and the player want to make a saga thread of it. All you need to do is one of two things:

  1. Keep playing the way you're playing. You've already got a long-standing view of the House and that's been working for you. Ignore the book and/or just use the crunchy interesting bits that will work for you.

  2. Bring in elements from the new vision of the House. Compare and contrast. Find those elements in the characters that do mirror the House as it is now and give opportunities for those to come through. Give the players opportunities to play up their differences with their House. Who says they aren't the maverick Jerbiton that kind of left Valnastium behind them?

Good advice there from Mark.

An Iberian Jerbiton is likely to have a slightly different view on his Roman/Theban Housemates, particularly with Jerbiton magi being more involved with mundane culture and families than most magi.

I don't think your problem is as big as you might initially think.

Cheers,

Jarkman

And England is far from Constantinople.

Hey Dread Comedian, fear not.

Like you my saga is in England just after the Norman conquest (actually started just a little bit before) and like you we've got characters that don't fit into their houses terribly well. Specifically my evil-as-sin Criamon Necromancer.

In fact my Criamon is so outside the idea of his house he will find it nearly impossible to progress in the house mysteries.

But thats ok. In fact i'm just waiting for the day when the other SGs introduce a bit of Criamon house business. Maybe send a senior Criamon to "beckon him back to the fold".

Indeed to quote Mr Lawford

I'd enthusiastically encourage folks to get a copy of Sanctuary of Ice...but in print, since we haven't released it in PDF yet. :slight_smile:

You know you could actually try to sell this Guy as a Follower of the Path of Strife ?
Nah, I mostly wonder what the Jerbiton looked like before they became pacifistic Manipulators. I hope I can get my Guy´s into that mold and then have them expierience the gradual Change of House Policy.....
Especially since a contingency of our Companions is on the Road to Constantinople (via Rus ! Good Stuff so far.)

OK, the points I'd make in response here are these:

Jerbiton magi agree that they each have the right, and perhaps the duty, to live in the personally most fulfilling way possible. They call this the "beautiful" way of living. They do not agree on what beauty -is-, but most of them know it when they see it.

There is very little House pressue to conform. There -are- things that are clearly -not- beautiful to most members of the House, but even if you are living in a way that is not beautiful, so long as you keep you oddness private, you have no worries from the House. This is not a true lineage.

I see no reason for this, but if it works for you...it's your game.

I think they thought that nobilitiy, and rulership, were a more beautiful way of living than being a lab rat, and I presume that's a view still widely held. Andru's reforms basically said to the older, more powerful Jerbitons "Sure, you are all living how you want, but your focus on your own local issues, and personal desires, has led to the House being unable to do the big things we all agree should be done." Your guys sound classic for this style of magus, in that they are involved in the minutiae of their local needs to a distracting degree. I think its a perfectly good way of playing the members of the House.

Ask yourself, though, after you magi get rulership of an area, what do they want to -do- with that area, or with the free time being ruler of an area gives you? What's their end game, beyond simple power? That, for your magi, is probably the Beautiful Life.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

As I mentioned we are a quite a bit earlyer then Canon, so I think it
might be wise to have my two watch the slow changes in the House Politics toward Andru´s reforms.
There is at least one or two Generations of Magi space between my two Guys and the Cannon Timeline.

Ah, but now there's a chance to announce it will be shortly on offer, eh Mr Nephew? ... (hint) :stuck_out_tongue:

Jarkman

As one of the magi in question from the Dread Comedian's saga the situation may be normalizing.

I admit when I read the table of contents my impression was that this was just not going to work. My character has about as much interest in "beautiful" living as...interacting with our Flambau or trapsing near Nocti's tower.

So I was surprised at how well he does fit into Jerbiton. He isn't a lab rat, he thinks that if God gives you a long life you should live it, not huddle in a tower accumulating "power" for no better reason then having power. So that is a check.

He enjoys traveling so check.

Of course Byz isn't a bad city but it has not much going on Barcelona, and really Rome is where it should be at. So check sort of, visiting Byz, no problem why not?

So my character takes "Brutal Artist" and drops the flaw about his Parens which fits better anyway. His "Art" is war and at this time he fits in not at all. He could care less that he is not welcome in the various "sewing circles" which make up his house. He appreciates fine art, good wine (non-existant in the dreary place he finds himself), beautiful women (eeespecially red heads; Wales's only redeeming quality), fast horses, magnificient hosptitality (a concept that keeps tripping him up with Fey), a well balanced sword, a spirited charge and any number of others things which don't equate to vis sources and musty tomes. But he sees no reason to sit around discussing them, which is about as fulfilling as entombing yourself in a tower for a hundred years. He does enjoy discussing Caeser's campaigns against the gauls and that absolutely wonderful last charge that routed the Heathens. Again I think that is check sort of.

The character is a noble hence the choice of him as an apprentice. Check.

Mentam is a strong secondary Art for the character but I have limited number of spells that use it (1). I need to learn Perdo just for PeMe (you forget what you just saw), to go with my ReMe (you do what I say). Imaginem gives some potent battle field applications. So check (if not exactly typcial).

Pacafism is out for the character. He is a bit sick of war at the moment but that is largely due to two years of fighting in the Reconquesta and seeing far to much death incidental to the fact. Did we really need to burn that village to the ground?

He rarely (read next to nearly never) uses his hermetic name. Check sort of.

He isn't much into subtle manipulation. He tried that with the Flambeau and it turned out badly.

At any rate, after some thought Jerbiton fits still without too much shoehorning. While it is to late to change things if an edit is ever considered "beautiful living" should be modified to some other phrase.

I was not expecting the character would fit based on what the table of contents led me to expect. I was astounded that the character still works, and happy as well.

I can't comment on the other character who might have more difficulty fitting in.

But the chapter as a whole is interesting but as we are a few hundred years before the setting a lot of it is just useful for getting a feel for the house itself. A bunch of self centered popinjays would likely sum up my characters view of most of his nominal housemates who would likely respond with comments about barely literate thugs with a deluded sense of their worth and the sublty of a blacksmith.

As one of the magi in question from the Dread Comedian's saga the situation may be normalizing.

I admit when I read the table of contents my impression was that this was just not going to work. My character has about as much interest in "beautiful" living as...interacting with our Flambau or trapsing near Nocti's tower.

So I was surprised at how well he does fit into Jerbiton. He isn't a lab rat, he thinks that if God gives you a long life you should live it, not huddle in a tower accumulating "power" for no better reason then having power. So that is a check.

He enjoys traveling so check.

Of course Byz isn't a bad city but it has not much going on Barcelona, and really Rome is where it should be at. So check sort of, visiting Byz, no problem why not?

So my character takes "Brutal Artist" and drops the flaw about his Parens which fits better anyway. His "Art" is war and at this time he fits in not at all. He could care less that he is not welcome in the various "sewing circles" which make up his house. He appreciates fine art, good wine (non-existant in the dreary place he finds himself), beautiful women (eeespecially red heads; Wales's only redeeming quality), fast horses, magnificient hosptitality (a concept that keeps tripping him up with Fey), a well balanced sword, a spirited charge and any number of others things which don't equate to vis sources and musty tomes. But he sees no reason to sit around discussing them, which is about as fulfilling as entombing yourself in a tower for a hundred years. He does enjoy discussing Caeser's campaigns against the gauls and that absolutely wonderful last charge that routed the Heathens. Again I think that is check sort of.

The character is a noble hence the choice of him as an apprentice. Check.

Mentam is a strong secondary Art for the character but I have limited number of spells that use it (1). I need to learn Perdo just for PeMe (you forget what you just saw), to go with my ReMe (you do what I say). Imaginem gives some potent battle field applications. So check (if not exactly typcial).

Pacafism is out for the character. He is a bit sick of war at the moment but that is largely due to two years of fighting in the Reconquesta and seeing far to much death incidental to the fact. Did we really need to burn that village to the ground?

He rarely (read next to nearly never) uses his hermetic name. Check sort of.

He isn't much into subtle manipulation. He tried that with the Flambeau and it turned out badly.

At any rate, after some thought Jerbiton fits still without too much shoehorning. While it is to late to change things if an edit is ever considered "beautiful living" should be modified to some other phrase.

I was not expecting the character would fit based on what the table of contents led me to expect. I was astounded that the character still works, and happy as well.

I can't comment on the other character who might have more difficulty fitting in.

But the chapter as a whole is interesting but as we are a few hundred years before the setting a lot of it is just useful for getting a feel for the house itself. A bunch of self centered popinjays would likely sum up my characters view of most of his nominal housemates who would likely respond with comments about barely literate thugs with a deluded sense of their worth and the sublty of a blacksmith.

Have Jerbitons any cool virtue, flaw, spell or anything in this book?

I just had time to skim the chapter, but I find the focus on Constantinople surprisingly cool. The concept of playing a league working to support the rise of Nicea (and essentially save the Roman Empire) or rebuild Constantinople is alluring.

If only I have time...