HoH: TL Errata for ghosts?

Hi all,
I noticed that the ghost section in HoH:TL may be incorrect - p126 onwards mentions different types of ghost. According to ROP:Magic p101 spirits should have 1 pawn for every magnitude of might - however the legionary (might 10) has 1, Cataphract (Might 15) has 2, Wili (Might 15) has 2 and the Moro (Might 20) has 3. Shouldn't all these have an extra pawn - or am I missing something?


You're not missing anything, really. HoH:TL was published prior to RoP:M. Feel free to adjust the creatures to be more consistent with RoP:M. I wouldn't say it needs errata as such, though.

I Just thought it was a bit unusual, the creatures in the Bestiary in the core book follow those rules (apart from the ghostly warder).

I wondered if the Tremere Ghosts used a different rule.

They are Tremere ghosts. They exist to be difficult.

RoP:M should say that you can have as much vis as you want in your corpse or as little as you want. It just tends to be 1 pawn per magnitude. This is actually surprisingly important when a magus decides to create a pile of magical creatures or elementals with a group target ritual and then murder them all for vis.

Do what now? Do you honestly think that would work? A Creo Ritual (which will cost vis) that creates creatures with Might. You kill the creatures and somehow get your vis back (or more!)?

If this worked, there wouldn't be a vis shortage in Rome.

Exactly my point. It doesn't. Also after searching through RoP: Magic, I'm pretty certain it says spirits "typically" contain 1 vis per magnitude. Spirits can have as much or as little as they want, but its generally one per 5.

Emphasis Mine.

Do what now?

Were you suggesting the scheme of using a ritual to create creatures with Might and then killing them and harvesting their vis? Or were you pointing out (originally) that this scheme would not work (and no one was actually presenting this scheme either)?

I was pointing out why 1 pawn of vis per magnitude of might is a terrible idea. Brutus claimed RoP:M said there was one pawn of vis per might of magnitude. If that is the case such a scheme does work.

However, once again Brutus is wrong, RoP:M does not say that.

The little waimies from Antagonists are another example where vis does not line up with might, this one from years after RoP: Magic. It is a good thing too. Otherwise the horrific predations of the Waimie become an extraordinary vis source, one that any magi would be quite reluctant to destroy.

This scheme has been discussed on this forum before. repeatedly I believe.
It usually runs into the "Hermetic Limit of Being Eaten by a Dragon" I believe.

Back then it was more of an informal guideline than a rule, and I thought by choosing a lower amount I'd help the game skip the rampant vis and power inflation of previous editions.

Thanks Timothy, that makes everything clear. :smiley: