Holy Tradition: Circle of the Teutonic Knights

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

I want to create a new Holy Tradition that is different from the others: this time it should be a tradition that constist of fighters like crusaders and so on. I do this because one of our companions changed from a half giant who was at the start of the saga a diabolic/pagan helper and a hater of mankind and god to a pious man that lives with monks and helps them, has the highest scores in all Supernatural Lores, Theology, Canon Law ect. It was a good and refreshing story that wasnt planed at all by none of us, but now we all think he is ready for his first True Faith point after doint the last proof of faith (his next quest).

But in our group we also think, that he shouldnt become a monk only because of his True Faith: even example characters like the muslim knight from Semita Erabunda is a fighter with True Faith and several crusaders should have this Virtue too. In fact crusaders are stated as an example for people who gains their first True Faith score!

So we thought about another Holy Tradition of the crusaders (this example is for the Teutonic Knights because the covenant resides near the baltikum but you should do something like this for oter crusaders too). And we agreed that if fighters can have True Faith and use it for combat and can even get their first score only because of fighting and killing for god, such a Holy Tradition should fit very well in the setting.

Holy Tradition: Inner Circle of the Teutonic Knights
"Help, Heal, Protect"
Favored Abilities: Purity, Intervention, Transcendence, Second Sight
At the time (1234) our current saga takes place the Order of the Teutonic Kights fight against the pagans in the baltic lands after an order of Friedrich II. In the next decades they wil grow and some other orders will became a part of them.
Not every member of the order is a user of this methods and powers, in normal cases only the best kights (usually these with True Faith but there are exceptions) and most of the chaplains know how to use this. Because the order was originally an organisation of healers and not of fighters most of the inner circle concentrate on these effects. The behaviour of these truly holy kights is also different from most other crusaders, not only because of their True Faith: it is their stronger relationship to god that jelps them to lead this crusade in a more perfect way without much cruelty. They even heal pagans who doesnt confess or who spit on their cross, but these actions gave some of them such a good reputation even among the pagans that many of them become christians after they or someone they know got blessed.
This is far different from the behaviour of the infernal touched Kights of the Sword which murder and rape the pagan people in Pomerania. It is obvious that these two orders arent very friendly to each other but historically the Sword Kights will be defeated in 1236 by the pagans and this order will became a part of the Teutonic Kights!
Because of the Second Sight ability the order is capable of finding pagan/fearie regios easily and detecting supernatural attacks from their pagan foes. Because of this usefullness sometimes this ability is even taought to normal kights and even sergeants.
They can activate their Purity method in two ways: the first one is during a fight (or a show fight) after they got wounded or after they spend a fatigue level or a light wound. The other way is the cure of wounded or sick people: the kights devote themself so greatly in their healing without taking food, water or sleep that they can create truly miraculous healings.

2

Awesome and formidable - and hopes of them never coming too close to our covenant!

3

Considering that your Teutonic Knights will likely come in for Infernal Interference ,
do you think they should have Sense Holiness and Unholiness as well?
It is fine to be able to sense Magic/Faerie things , but the real danger will be from Hell itself.
If players sense Holiness from some obviously non-Catholic folk at times ,
this may give you scope for moral dilemmas for the players.

4

There are several reasons for my choice:

  1. I think divine tradition can only have one minor virtue

  2. If the Teutonic Knights would have this ability they could probably detect the infernal curruption of other kight orders, but this would change the setting too much I think: good against pagans = fine, capable of disturbing extremly effective infernal plots = bad

Perhaps Sense Holiness and Unholiness would fit better in a fight against the minions of hell, against witches, wizards or something, but I think against pagans this is not so useful.

Btw: they wont be able to sense holiness from pagan people: only divine religions can have True Faith or Divine Might.

5

I wasn't suggesting that Pagans would be Holy as per Muslims and Jews though.
That many Catholics see theirs as the one True Faith.
To see a religion that you have crusaded against as having some Holy individuals would be disconcerting.

So in your Saga , Infernal Corruption only applies to the People of the Book?
Pagans , cannot be influenced by Demons?

6

Well I misunderstood you I have to admit.

But the Teutonic Order wont fight or act against Muslims, Kathars or even Jews because these religions are not very usual at the baltic coast, perhaps later with the russian-orthodox church but this isnt what the order is now.

And no there are of course pagans that are led or influenced by demons, but I always thought of the baltic crusade as a war against pagans not against hell or infernal minions (and yes this are two different things, even for a medivial guy!) so the order should learn the virtue that fits best for their purpose.

But besides this: whata bout something else that incorporates the background of the order as a Hospitalerorden? A minor virtue that gives people recovery roll bonus or an affinity/puissant with chirugy/medicine or a lesser purifing touch.

7

I like your original idea with Second Sight , as having more utility for stories.
If you want to include Divine Healing , then perhaps Affinity with Blessing (page 51 , RoP : D).
The Knight would be able to give a bonus to Recovery Rolls.
No obvious miraculous effects , but anybody Blessed by one of the Knights is more likely to recover ,
than someone not blessed.

8

I know that Blessing does not fit with your original choice of Method & Powers.
My thought was that the benefits are available at a much lower level than the Intervention guidelines.
Blessing has a Level 04 base for +12 to Recovery rolls.
Intervention has a Level 35 base to permanently heal a light wound.

9

Personally, I think if you plan to use anything from RoP:I extensively you should avoid letting a player have the Sense Holiness/Unholiness ability as it has the potential to cripple nearly any plot which relies on demonic deception/guile etc. Think "that other game played with a twenty-sided dice" and the abuses of the paladin ability to detect evil over the years.

Having the players trying to decide if the pagan follower is evil or just misguided and the corrupt priest just fanatical or demonically misled through roleplaying etc is much more interesting - Hermetic magic can't help them due to its Limits.

Regards,

Jarkman

10

I agree!

By the way Lucius if you havent gotten it yet, I just wanted to pop a little Ancient Magic spoiler: it has a insert (less than page, but it is there) on the Teutonic Knights aswell as the Swordbrethren...

11

House ruling away a Virtue (albeit temporarily) is a poor way to run a Saga.
If this is being run with Players , not just set up for NPCs ,
what do you tell any player who may want this Virtue independently?
(not just as a favoured ability)
Will Guardian Angel be banned as well?

It just means that the true Infernal villain and any minions have to be more subtle than usual.
Anyone with Cthonic Magic will also register as Unholy , even if they are not Evil , or in league with the Infernal.

12

[quote="Furion Transsanus"
By the way Lucius if you havent gotten it yet, I just wanted to pop a little Ancient Magic spoiler: it has a insert (less than page, but it is there) on the Teutonic Knights aswell as the Swordbrethren...[/quote]

Gnahhh

I guess something that kills my ideas and work entirely?
Time for my fantasy shop to get his hand on this damn book. :frowning:

13

Don't you fret Mr. Lucius! It only informs of the existance of the Teutonic Knights and adds that they've had dealings with the Tremere (not neccesarily the peaceful kind) and it is suggested that they might have been used or duped into some activities by the Tremere, and it adds that the Teutonics are pursuing the lost secret of Canaanite necromancy to use it to further their own goals (conquering the Holy Land)... Which beside acting as a possible plot hook also goes to show that they might be more concerned with their goals than the means to reach it (ripe for corruption?).

I disagree, but I also think it might be put less harsh then house ruling away anything. I believe it should be in any players best interest when creating characters to trust the SG's judgement on whether some virtues/flaws would seriously undermine the story and thus make it less interesting for all involved. It is a matter of preference, but to me the story potential is more important than the rule mechanics in terms of the free choice amongst all virtues and flaws.

This might be mediated by either suggesting other similar virtues/flaws; take for example Visions where the SG might give some of the same information but more to the SG choice and timing than with the Sense. Alternatively to allow someone to have the Sense but to have the character be someone who might not entirely relate his sensations to the world. Finally I presume that this is not a question of house ruling the virtue out, just that it would be very disruptive if all ir some of the Teutonics have it.

"Trust me. It is for the better of the story, and if you can't trust me on this then how can you trust me in general on guiding the troupe's saga?"

14

An online link : The Teutonic Order , 1230-1309
Not sure how useful this might be to you.
It does have a small map and there are various links from the actual page.

Petri de Dusburg's "Chronicon terrae Prussiae" and Nicolaus von Jeroschin's "Die Kronike von Pruzinlant"
are in volume one of Scriptores rerum Prussicarum (Leipzig, 1861; reprint Frankfurt/Main: Minerva, 1965);

Heinrici Chonicon Livoniae (2nd edition. Hannover: Hahnsche, 1955) is available in English translation by James Brundage,
The Chronicle of Henry of Livonia (Madison: U. of Wisconsin Press, 1961);

Livländische Reimchronik (Paderborn, 1876; reprint Hildesheim: Georg Olms, 1963), is available in English translation,
The Livonian Rhymed Chronicle (trans. Jerry C. Smith and William Urban, Bloomington, Indiana: Indiana University Press, 1977);

volumes one, two, three, and six of Liv-, Est-, und Curländisches Urkundenbuch (12 vols. Reval, Riga, and Moscow: Kluge and Strohm, Kymmel, and Deuber, 1853-1914)
and volume one, parts one and two of Preussisches Urkundenbuch (Königsberg: Hartung, 1882 and 1909) contain most of the printed documents;

and Das Zeugenverhör des Franciscus de Moliano (1312) (Königsberg: Thomas und Oppermann, 1912) is the most important papal investigation of this era.

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Pagan Latvian Deities