house rules and rulings

There is puiessent dead language as well. The way it is written Puissent ability boosts everything that does not involve learning- which to me means that it includes everything but calculation of points to the next level and your effective level for instruction- so if you are teaching an ability you have at 3+2 you can only teach to level 3, and your training totals if you are training are based off of the 3 instead of the 5. For reading, writing, and talking it is considered to be an effective 5.

But that's not true. "[...] and get +2 to all totals which include it." Totals are not involved in proficiency. There is no communication, no good teacher, no appealing to magical beings, just the ability score. Anything which increases this, such as the Text specialization for a laboratory mentioned in Covenants, would use wording identical or similar to "may add [...] one to her relevant Language Ability when writing lab texts and books".

If you still choose to make it like this, that's fine. GM fiat is GM fiat and it's what makes the roleplaying world go around; wouldn't want to live without it. But this interpretation is just not in any way supported by RAW, nor does it (in my opinion, anyway, which may well be flawed or biased) make much sense for the purpose of game balance.

EDIT: Incidentally, just as an aside, please do say if I am speaking out of turn. I do acknowledge that as the creator and manager of this game, you are the supreme authority, and any attempt of mine to nitpick or otherwise argue is merely a result of my, uhm, bad habits and somewhat polemical nature, as opposed to an attempt to undermine you. If at any point I argue too much, please, tell me to shut up and I will.

So for those interested in languages, Puissant (living) language is either awesome or useless. I hope it is awesome, but I will(of course) live with either determination.

Does the Good Teacher Virtue also count when training as well as teaching? Wording is ambiguous, but seems to imply it might.

Also, you say in response to one of the character sheets that Parma Magica cannot be higher than 1 at Gauntlet. Is this a houserule? Per the core book, it's only rare, not impossible, that characters right out of apprenticeship start with more than 1 in Parma Magica, as is also elaborated upon in Apprentices, p.61.

(I'll be less argumentative once the game starts, it's just nice to get these things out of the way before we get into anything :blush: )

A total of X+0 is X, but still a total. So yes, I include base usage, though as I have stated elsewhere, you will generally use com+language anyways.

Parma magic is the last thing which an apprentice is taught after they complete their gauntlet and swear the oath. As such it can only be taught for one season, unless they have somehow put less than 5 points into it previously, which would be an extremely inefficient use of training time. As such their teacher would have to have a teaching total above 15 for them to have parma 2 at gauntlet. I will allow this for apprentices trained in game if their parens has a high enough teaching total, but not for characters generated post gauntlet.

That reasoning on Parma makes sense. But having a 15 teaching is not that hard. If the character took "skilled parens" then the parens might well have good teach. At which point it takes a Com + Teaching of only 1 (+3 starting, +6 for a single student, and +5 for good teacher). Even without Good Teacher, you only need a Com + Teaching (with specialty) of 6.

I'm not saying it is impossible, or really even exceptionally difficult, but it is presented in the game to be quite the norm, the rules generally support it, and I think it is sort of the first low hanging fruit to those who want to raise an apprentice themselves.

No problem on the Parma.

A long-shot question. One thing I have noticed is that although Strong Faerie Blood includes not aging until 50, and a +3 to aging rolls, neither one of those exist as separate minor virtues (nor together). Is there any such virtue I have not seen?

Faerie Blood (the normal version from the core book), Magian Lineage (from The Cradle & the Crescent), Hyperborean Descent (Ancient Magic) and Blood of the Bee King (The Lion and the Lily) are all minor virtues giving a bonus (read: penalty) to aging rolls. There are presumably more, which I have currently forgotten.

I believe no other virtue (other than Nephilim, but we Do Not Talk About Nephilim) moves the age at which you first roll for aging.

EDIT: Ah, of course. There's also the different types of Magical Blood from RoP:M.

Thanks. I am still working my way through Ancient Magic (reading the Grigori at the moment). I'll have to think about whether it makes sense to give the redcap minor hyperborean descent. It may work.

Oh, if that's the problem, just give them Unaging. A less specific background to have to think up, and it stops all non-fatal effects of aging.

Bump - Good Teacher adding to Training question still pending

It is a good one- I believe a precise reading of the texts results in "no" but I have always felt like it should be "yes". I'm going to go with a vote on this one.

In fact this has sent my brain idling down some paths I would appreciate some discussion on- if good teacher does add to training how does this affect the SQ for learning from works of art (from artes and academe), should muse affect the SQ for those learning from an artist's work if the original artist has muse?

I'm obviously voting yes on this one - The book is usually very clear on when something cannot increase this type of total. The book uses "studies with" instead of teaches, which to me implies either/or.

I do not think Good Teacher should add to studying from works of art, to me there is no teacher/trainer element, therefore no. Neither should Apt pupil add anything.

For Muse - not familiar with this one (don't have the book). However, consider this - there should be an abundance of high SQ art available in Mythic Europe (especially in Italy or Greece), defined as at least high enough for the artist to sign their work (requires 8 reputation, which requires min 24 Aesthetic level, which provides min 12 SQ. For EACH piece/work). Let that standard be your guide as to whether you WANT it to count.

Actually I was thinking good teacher would add +3 to SQ of art, the same as it does for books where there is no teacher/trainer element.
Of course allowing both (+3SQ for good teacher, and +3 SQ for muse) could get truly abusive- and/or a lot of fun.

I don't think Good Teacher should add to Training.

A typical master would have Ability 6, which per Covenants allows them to make items good enough to give laboratories Superior Equipment/Tools, and which according to C&G would, assuming a deft craftsman (Characteristic >= 2) in a good workshop (Innovation >= 2) with good materials (Raw Materials Score >= 2), allow said master to craft Superior Items (According to C&G, only "exceptional" craftsmen can make Superior Items single-handedly).

Assuming Ability 6, that's a total training quality of 9. If Good Teacher was to count, it would increase the source quality by more than 50%. It would also allow an Ability 1 master to train an apprentice as well as a regular Ability 6 master, albeit with a lower skill cap.

As for Muse, I don't see why it would.

EDIT for further argument:

A teacher with communication 0 and teaching 3 (which certainly isn't all that much) has, when teaching a single student, a base Source Quality of 12, or twice the amount of the typical master. If said teacher instead had communication 2 and teaching 6, putting them on par with the above master, their Source Quality when teaching a single student would be 17. This isn't an accident, or almost thrice as much as your average master. A teacher gives up their entire season of work in order to focus on optimizing the learning process for the students, and in the case of a single student, tailors every last bit of it to their unique personality. A master training an apprentice, meanwhile, practices their craft exactly as well as if they'd been making a living without an apprentice. That is, they give up nothing, as they go about their daily routine without adjusting to the apprentice, hoping instead that they pick up on things as they go. This is also why the teaching skill has no influence on their Source Quality: They don't adapt to the apprentice, and every little bit the apprentice learns, they learn from copying the master's routine.

There's a massive disparity between Teaching and Training, and it's meant to be that way, because a Teacher sacrifices an entire season, whereas the Master gives up nothing.

Also, given the recently decided-upon house rules, could I swap out Linguist for Puissant Living Languages?

yes, go ahead and make the changes to the character and post a note about the change.

I must agree with this. Especially Puissant Living Languages. Linguist already exists and should be used

Edit: i do not believe it is even legal under RAW. Puissant with ABILITY means ability. Living Langugaes is not an ability but a category of abilities. It is like taking Puissant with weapons or Arcane.