Different books treat it differently, some treat craft as an ability, some treat craft (type) as a single ability. I prefer to treat craft, living language, and dead language as single abilities, and this is in part base on the existence of linguist, which to me is splitting an affinity between two related abilities- living languages and dead languages.
If there were not books that clearly treat "Craft" as a single ability across all applications, I would agree with jebrick. But once I saw that, it seemed that treating libing language (and dead language) as a single ability makes good sense. Also, given the definition of Linguistics, it seems like Affinity with Living Languages or Affinity with Dead Languages was assumed to already exist.
Also, I believe SilverOak has been consistent about this view for quite some time, and so I expected and accepted it in a campaign where he is the story guide.
Since I want to use some of the vis I provide myself (although most will be for the covenant), I need to check on one aspect o fthe rules.
These questions all relate to Talisman
- I presume that for the initial opening the amount of vis used must correspond to some valid opening of the device, since it is not yet a talisman? But any kind of Vim (most commonly Vis) can be used?
- When investing a spell in a talisman, and opening a bonus from shape or form of the talisman, does the spell being invested have to relate to the bonus being opened?
2') Once a bonus is opened in a Talisman (such as +4 to movement), it applies to any suitable spells I cast when holding the talisman?
Not true. A master is "working" for an entire season at something that will earn him/her an income. The apprentice is working with the master to learn the craft.
Can someone point me to the book(s) where Craft is used as single ability.
ROP:faerie, under dwarf blood, p.107
Why are we continuing to argue this? Whether this is house rule or clarification seems a rather moot point.
regarding cash- the average magus has a salary of either 1 or 2 lbs of silver a year: I am basing calculations on 1 lb assuming this will be, for one reason or another more common and if the mage does make a higher wage they are more likely to spend a higher percentage of it.
I am also assuming that the average mage saves 10% of this or roughly 24 pennies a year. Each +/-1 in a personality trait which would influence this will increase or decrease this by 1% of the assumed salary or 10% of 24 pennies (round after adjusting for all personality traits). If for some reason abnormal ranges of traits are used there is a ceiling of 20% and a floor, obviously, of none. Any expenses for ingredients for magical items above trivial (which are included in lab operation costs) will come from 1/2 of that year's actual salary before dipping into savings (this does come out of that year's savings first however)
I'm going to be using 3 variations on covenant resources:
- building maintenance costs will be based on actual buildings, not inhabitants. (1 lb of buildings is needed to house 1 point of inhabitants... otherwise you are cramped or in tents)
- savings in excess of the maximum that can be realized can be used for improvements or stored. For example if you have an capacity to save 5 pounds via masonry but expenses are only 9 (and masonry can only save 1/2 costs) then you can buy a house (1 pound) at half cost using your own mason. Or the mason can store 5 bricks of dressed masonry stone to be used later.
- workshop improvements from city & guild will be used, but the season to install them will be lost- grogs do not work a third season just because their workshop is being improved. covenant money may be used to buy labor points for improvements.
So I was looking at S/F boni with an eye on Items of Quality and this little gem caught my eye.
Things that might be useful in Craft: Mason
Pick: +4 destroy stone (can be used to shape stone to make blocks)
Glove (work gloves) +4 bonus to affect things by touch (which is pretty much everything in crafting)
Spade +4 move or destroy earth (only tangentially applicable, such as digging foundations, but related in effect and magnitude of bonus)
Okay, clear pattern emerging. then:
Mason's Chisel +2
I know AR5 is not know known for it's consistency, and Spade and Pick aren't really the best tools for what I want, but still, a measly +2?!? Is there any reason NOT to go Glove over Chisel when choosing an IOC? Even the Terram specific boni are mostly +3. The only reason I can think of is that gloves are not generally as durable as a chisel.
I don't know of any reason you couldn't use a glove with a chisel...
Hmmmmm.... Interesting....
I was taking a closer look at crafting/art/Hermetic Inclination in (form) rules and see that they don't quite mesh. Here is how I understand things:
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Making stuff (craft rules from C&G, pg 67-73): Base unit is a season, target number is based off quality. If the workshop total is higher than the target number, you craft proportionally faster, and can use assistants to boost workshop total to either craft better good, make them faster, or combo of both.
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Making art (Art rules from A&A pg 123-125): Base unit is season, year, or decade, depending on how "big" the piece is. Aesthetic total is calculated per the rules with no particular target, but higher totals multiples the base unit by 2, 3 or more, dramatically increasing the time taken for anything but tiny pieces. Assistants can reduce the time, are limited by leadership, and requires 13!!! to reduce a time by half. 13 assistants on base unit year reduces time by 1/4, and 13 assistants on a base decade is why bother in the first place? I am assuming that if I am putting art on something (like a building) I need the building first. Question: If the art IS the building/room/etc, can I use both these rules concurrently? I.e. WHILE building a lab, can I ALSO use the art rules to make it pretty, almost always requiring extra time.
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Why would I want to do this? Well, first, a well designed and tasteful lab has benefits of it's own, even if they don't apply in game mechanics. Second, a Maestro with HII(F) can instill a single magical effect at the same time as making the artwork. So it takes longer to make things pretty, but I get a free, permanent, magical effect to go along with it. If I can keep my art total at 0 or below (harder than it sounds), and instill a base season artwork in a single season (1/2 time from assistants, x2 from Aesthetic total). If the base unit is year, it takes 1.5 years, again with 13 assistants.
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Question - If I am NOT able to let a leadership of 13, what happens to the time saved? Is it discarded at the end of the season (or used by adventures, etc), or does it "carry over" until time saved adds up to a season? If it's discarded, I think I'm gonna need yet another Item of Quality....
A few things:
- crafts are manufactured at a speed based on your craft ability (plus overtime if you push yourself), the target number is really open ended and defines the quality of your work.
- art does take longer (significantly) one of the defining characteristics of art (for the purposes of artes and academe) is that it has no practical use. So a building would always be made using craft rules. The fresco on the front is art, as is the statue decorating the courtyard. The same character can practice both art and crafts in the same medium.
- due to rules I have written which have yet to be published in sub rosa, artistic quality will have an effect on some magics, though items which are crafted have a much wider impact.
how much vis in a season can a magus get by helping another in a lab ? I think I read something about it somewhere, but i cannot find it now.
What are the other ways to earn vis apart from extracting it from the aura ?
A few I can think of:
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personal Vis Source virtue
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Commerce, i.e. making anything of magical value and finding a buyer (best bang for buck: transcribe your lab notes into a readable form. For most magi this writes spell levels faster than any other means, but you're limited to spells known)
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Go out and find vis (per House rules posted elsewhere, this is aided by Int, Area Lore, and a high magnitude InVi spell/item. Certain virtues such as second sight help. Be aware you may have to kill or negotiate with whatever ambulatory critter may be currently using the vis that you found. We also need to make an agreement as a covenant as to the disposition of found vis/vis sources.
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similar to commerce; trading favors, seasons, or other services (such as making longevity rituals) for vis or other considerations.
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barring any of those, I'm SURE a friendly and no ulterior motive demon would be HAPPY to share some vis with you, purely out of altruistic intention, of course!
regarding #3, I sited rules on the internet, those were not house rules.
Vis cost for enchanting a familiar will be based on the familiar level, not the lab total.
Since there has been a debate about it on the forum, how are you / we handling mastery & ritual botches.
There seems to be agreement that Ritual spells, without mastery, need extra botch dice equal to the vis cost.
There seems to be major debate about what happens if the caster has mastery. One camp says -1 botch die per mastery level. The other camp points to the "if relaxed, no botch" text and sqys that a single level of mastery ensures no botching of almost all rituals (I am sure one can create a situation in which the ritual is still stressed, even under this interpretation. But it would take work.)
Also, what rules on penetration of wards and Aegis are we using. The common view seems to be that wards must penetrate, but that the Aegis does not need to penetrate. A vocal subgroup argues that the Aegis must penetrate too.
We will use wards need to penetrate, the ward aspect of the ageis (keeping out entities with might) needs to penetrate, but the other effects do not. An entity with force lower than the aegeis which penetrates the aegeis will be unable to use powers.
I'm going to go with if relaxed no botch.
Thanks. That works fine for me.