Hypothetical for a saga I am planning: A powerful daimon is actively using mortal (and magi) cultists and its own aspects to achieve a long term aim that the PCs are very much against happening. I have all kind of fun ways for them to work against the mortal agents of this daimon, dismantle the cults etc. But the daimon is going to be an issue. How can you stop a daimon that is sending aspects to Earth? You can't directly affect the daimon because its not on the same plane of existence and if you kill or bind an aspect, the daimon can just dissolve it and make another.
Is there anyway to bind, kill, or stop a daimon for the long term?
RoP:M suggests that it is possible to affect the Daimon through their Aspect, which acts as a permanent Arcane Connection to the "real" one. Targeting the Aspect itself does little, beyond angering the Daimon; but Arcane ranged spell can reach it.
Some problems you might encounter with this are:
A. Daimon is presumed to have more Might then the summoned Aspect.
B. It resides in the Magic Realm, so it's MR is further boosted by an Aura of 10 (20 if it's aligned)
C. If Dies Irae is anything to go by, you can never actually kill a Daimon. They are a representation of a concept in a world. An idea(l).
What I imagine prospective Magi could do is try to bind them, much like the Faerie Gods bound the Titans? So, they could either try to ally with a Faerie God/Panteon, search for powers that could perhaps help them (Faerie Wizardry maybe?), or somehow placate the Daimon?
One thing to keep in mind is that daimons cannot freely send aspects- they have to be summoned or fave a familiar bind to someone, and they cost a lot of vis to summon. Take out the cults, the aspects, and burn every book that the daimon's name appears in and you have effectively shut it down.
That was my first thought too - that daimons can only send aspects in response to a summoning, so remove the summoners and you remove the problem.
But when looking closer I could not find any statement to this effect in the rules.
Is this by the rules? I do admit to pondering this myself but I couldn't find anything that says this directly. If thats the case then that would solve the issue since the PCs can combat the cults, then have a climatic battle with the already-present aspect and that would be sufficient.
This is exactly what I was wondering, but I don't know if you can do it with a daimon. Frankly I'd rather have them bind it than kill it, its far cooler and really plays into the fantasy feel of sealed-evil-in-a-can.
I have mulled over the idea of them rousing a Greek god (its all tied into Greek mythology), Hades would be appropriate, to do the binding and make the focus of the quest summoning and persuading Hades. So quests to find arcane connections, true names, synthemata, etc. Not sure if it would just be 1. summon Hades and ask him to bind the daimon, 2. Hades binds the daimon, 3. Profit. Or whether Hades would need some encouragement. And if so what that might be.
Assuming that I don't get a god to do the binding, can the players bind the daimon. How does one bind a spirit? Confine them in a magic circle? Any other methods?
looking further you are right- it does not say that all daimons must be summoned, but it does indicate that daimons bound in the titanomachia can only appear if summoned. So what you need is a friendly (or greedy) fairy...
binding a spirit is trivial, binding a daimon though- you could in theory bind an aspect but unless that is a familiar binding (which must be cooperative) the daimon can simply shed the binding by shedding the aspect.
part of the issue here is also the fact that daimons are meant to be vast and mysterious, so it is really up to the SG what the rules are in large part for dealing with one, and whether those rules just apply to that daimon or all of them.
Well if Dies Irae is anything to go by, even that is debatable.
Spoiler for Dies Irae: A certain Loki can still manifest his Aspects all on his own due to the lapsing power of the Faerie Gods.
This could be another element of the proposed game. While the player Magi work to dismantle the Daimon's powerbase (Cult) in the mortal world, they must also defend fonts of Faerie power to make it more difficult for the Daimon to manifest on his own. Of course, this suggestion depends largely on what Daimon they're going up against.
Bound daemons cannot roam the earth freely.
If summoned, they can send aspects. I don't think this is always true, so you may need to weaken these bonds first.
The chains that bind them can be loosened, allowing them to send aspects on earth. This is not automatic.
So, for your saga, I'd say you first need to determine the level of binding.
Then, this determines what are the cultist goals, and in turn, what the PCs hope to achieve.
This allows you some freedom, in that the PC may lose at some point, then make progresses again.
Weak, and probably false, memory of The Mysteries, combined with the Elric saga: You may have unsummonable deamons whose chains are weakened after an initial massive ritual, and which then become much easier to summon. At some point, the scales tip so much that they can send aspects on their own, ultimately culminating with the daemon itself being freed.
=> The PCs may stop cultists at any points, try to summon faerie allies, and/or try to create their own bindings.
Hum... There are a few things to keep in mind, I think. While it's possible that a Daimon can manifest an aspect of itself without being summoned, I think the key question is where can he manifest that aspect without being summoned? A Daimon would be in the magic realm. In the magic realm, arcane connections to things outside the Magic Realm are interrupted, and the only functional arcane connections are those established through vestiges and boundaries. This means that typically a Daimon would need access to one of those to have one of his aspect travel to the mundane world on his own - and my guess is that, if not summoned, those aspects would need to be able to be manifested through a vestige.
Some powerful Daimons may be in a specific realm that has several connections to the real world, but again, those are the most likely daimons to have been bound in the titanomachia and similar events... and have lost the ability to send aspects through those vestiges and boundaries. On the other hand, there are those who would be in the Hall of Heroes. Would the Hall of Heroes have any connection to the mundane world? Assuming that place is inspired by mundane mythology, this hall of heroes is likely to be the halls of the valhalla, or the elysium fields which is beyond the river styx. Both of those would have their access directly or indirectly controlled by faerie gods. TMRE hints clearly that in becoming a daimon, the ascendant magi surrenders all earthly ties. It's not explicitly said, I suppose, but I doubt they may simply walk back into the mortal realm, and they depend very much on a cult's willingness to summon them.
Yes, if you allow a Daimon unfettered ability to manifest in the physical realm... you're on your way to an apocalyptic scenario.
By canon daimons are described as living in the twilight void, except possibly those which have been bound in Tartarus or similar locations. However one thing which is made clear is that daimons which ascended from genus loci can manifest aspects in the space which they were genus loci of, and it suggests that where an A exists to a daimon (other than an aspect) it would potentially allow them to manifest an aspect there. As such a temple (potentially even a ruined one) might be a place which has sufficient connection to allow manifestation (personal note: I would not allow manifestation under these assumptions at a written representation of their true name, but would allow the option for them to manifest wherever their true name is spoken or invoked.