How would you handle target group with Re/Te attacks


Everything is in the title...

Sling of vilano (10)
Damage +5, bypass magic resistance, need a Finesse roll, range 20.
ReTe base 5, Toucher +1.

But what would be :
Slings of vilano (20)
ReTe base 5, Toucher +1, group +2.

Would you give the same bonus as for the size (+12 Finesse) ?

Ah yes. I have 2 viewpoints here, as someone who did the same for his primary character...

Couple of things...
Your Target is a group of rocks, you are firing them from their current location towards your victim. Range increment is IIRC 20yards.
No matter how big your rock by RAW it does +5 damage.
Adding magnitudes for velocity might increase damage, or range. Ask your SG.
In order to get the finesse bonus for size, you actually have to move something that size.


  1. Adding 2 magnitudes for group is not increasing size, so no. However, changing to Group and attacking a solo victim would net you a +6 finesse bonus. Against a group not so much.
    Pebbledashing the area tends to hit the target.
  2. The base spell guideline fires IIRC a pace cubic of rock? Add a mag for complexity and smother them with dirt if there are no rocks. 10 cubic yards of earth is a lot. That one mag for complexity allows you to hit a small target with a rock, slam them with a paving slab, and now bury them in earth. The earth would get the +6.

Unfortunately the forum has a bunch of posts about my character on it... look for cj.23, he's my SG, and we have a tendency to cause rules verifications.


Thx for the reply

Do you have a rule reference for the +6 Finess with a Group spell Targeting a single foe ?

Not as such, (away from my character sheet and books). I have a vague memory that that was how we figured it out.
ISTR it was based on the idea that 10 rocks of size would be as hard to dodge as one rock of size*10.

As an example, (and based loosely on a spell I have.)
Throw the Mountain
ReTe 45 TARGETED attack +36 (+6 Size*6)
bypasses magic resistance, Damage +5, range increment 20.
Throws a vast amount of earth (10,000,000 cubic paces of earth) within sight range towards a target. If successfully struck, the target is likely to be buried.
(base 4, +0 earth, +3 Sight, +0 Momentary, +0 Individual, +6 Size)

I think this one worked too.
Mildly Annoyed Terram Mage
ReTe 50
Sight/Mom/Group TARGETED attack +6 vs Individuals, +0 vs groups.
bypasses magic resistance, Damage +5, range increment 20.
Throws earth, rock, metal, and gemstones around with equal ease.
(base 4, +2 metal/gemstones, +3 Sight, +0 Momentary, +2 Group, +3 complexity)

(ward vs stone, ward vs metal are fairly common when you play a Telekinetic, but ward vs gemstones? :laughing:


OK, searching the forum gave me :

not sure if these are the ones I remember though.
Basically, talk it over with your SG.


Bypassing Magic Resistance relies heavily on working with ballistics, meaning the stone has to hit the target with only natural energy from the fall. Thus weight is of primary concern in these spells - I would definitely factor this in calculating damage. A common gemstone won't do much noticeable damage no matter from what height it is dropped. Also these spells only work well outdoors.

Tying damage to spell level works for CrIg and PeCo but it is an approximation otherwise. Ars Magica is not an effects based system. IOW if +5 levels changes the missile from a few pounds of rock to a ton then damage should increase to whatever best fits being squished by a boulder rather than thrown cobble +5.