HR and CD discussion

Ease Factor 9, got it. Ok, if I have to list all the items it can make:
Hand drill, with bore sizes in .125 inch increments, (8 total, from 1/8th inch to 1" diameter)
one handed hammer, suitable for driving nails, in five sizes (for people from -2 size to +2 size)
Wedge/chisel (again, five sizes)
Pick, for digging (in five sizes)
Shovel ( five sizes)
Metal File - has five types, with various levels of coarseness for work.

Would this work better at a ReTe spell, so that I don't have to worry about duration?

Alright, let's stick with the normal scripts. I figured one of them requires to get a fairy friend which is a virtue I chose before, but that's ok I'll find something else.

For making items, part of the lab total includes the Magical Aura of the area. Can we assume that the Aura is at least 3?

1/Does the HR for wards also works on personal wards (pers/sun/ind) ou (touch/sun/ind) instead of (touch/ring/circle) ?

2/Is the Animae MuVi guideline in the HoH:MC p 95 to turn a spell into a fairy form specific ?

3/a/Would you allow MuVi spell to change the realm or creature realm alignement of a spell ?
Ex : Would you allow a MuVi Spell to allow circular ward against demon to now target faeries ?

b/ If so then would I need a different spell to change spells affecting : Auras ? Regiones ? Effects ? Vis ? (i'll provide one exemple for each)
Ex : Sense of magical power --> Sense of Faerie Power
Ex 2 : Piercing the magical veil --> Piercing the Faerie veil
Ex 3 : Sight of active magic --> Sight ot faerie magic
Ex 4 : Sense the nature of vis --> Sense the nature of fairie vis

c/What guideline would you chose ? "significantly change" would be my guess

I'd like to create some "become an awesome beastie/giant" spell/s, but RAW is a bit scant on what the correct magnitudes would be. What do you guys think about Irondboundtome's spells (link https://ironboundtome.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/transformation-into-gargantuan-creatures-part-one/), do you think the levels are OK?

Especially this:

"Form of the Lumbering Jotunn

Muto Corpus 20, R: Personal, D: Sun, T: Ind

This effect enlarges the Magus up to a very large (size rank 10) version of themselves. At this size the Magus is around 60 feet tall, and weighs over 100 tons.

The character’s combat mechanics are greatly enhanced, adding +20 Strength, +10 to Soak, -10 to Quickness. The character also gains the reach and leverage associated with the truly massive stance."

Seems a bit low level for the awesomeness - should I drop a few size ranks?

There's some discussion also here: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/shrinking-or-decreasing-size-spell/10834/1

I think this seems reasonable: "MoH, p.49., has a spell to grow the target, and it uses as a guideline the idea that you need enough size modifiers to make sure that the magic can affect the "end result". Since each +1 magnitude multiplies the mass of what you can affect by 10, which corresponds to a +3 increase in size, with the basic effect you can grow a target to size +1 (which is still a basic Corpus Individual); with an extra magnitude you can grow him to +4; with two extra magnitudes to +7; and so on."

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I would allow that at "significantly change". Requiring a separate spell for all those things seems a bit harsh, but if it was just magical-> faerie for a single spell, that would be quite powerful. Not sure about what to do there.

I like the idea of transformation into gigantic beasts (well depending on the context :wink: )

It seems quite strong indeed, but the guideline seems correct and the power is balanced by the fact that it's NOT discreet and resisted by parma (well unless you penetrate). One of the side effect is that you can't be the target of spell that take size into account.

In my experience, every-time you start adding a lot of magnitude for size It's not very well balanced (Like creating piles of sand to break a castle...)

Changing into a mythical beast could maybe have Vim requisite (because in CrAn guideline create a magical beast has the requisite).

On the transformations - there was a fair thrash on the forums back then particularly on scaling of mag increases. A limit I considered was to say beyond a certain size Vim is required because that's how giants are able to exist. I don't like that interpretation but can see the rationale in some sagas.

Even though it does not say it, the spells( Beast of outlandish size and Preternatural Growth and shrinking) that use the size change seem to limit it to +1 size and -2 size for the effect. MuAu base 4 has the same effect as MuCo base 3 in the spells. Otherwise it becomes immensely over powerful.

Growing beyond that should be a +1 mag per size.

How do we account for Affinity in Art/Ability in this model, as it will bork the 40/year model, 40 xp becomes 60?

I can easily account for affinities. It's noted on the sheet and I can multiply by 2/3. Suppose I need to an Hr about rounding. Being sick for a week+ hasn't helped me keep things moving.

A spell for perusal

Construct the Motte ReTe 25
Moves dirt in a 50 pace radius to form a motte. THe mound is 40 paces diameter at the base and 11 paces tall with a flat top. The moved earth will form a ditch around the motte. A Finesse roll of +6 is needed to correctly move and pack the earth. The flat area on top has a radius of 20 paces.

Base 3 + 2 voice, +1 part, +3 size

This is the first step to making a motte and Bailey fortification. I am treating it like craft magic that take an entire season of work into the spell.

Seems fine to me. I don't understand what you mean by taking an entire season. Do you mean for this spell or for all of the motte and bailey? I think you can have this spell build the mound instantaneously without any crafty bits - it's not like it's a complex thing or anything.

I believe he meant the time it would take to make it without magic by grogs.

Still sick. So if I miss something alert me.

I think changes in size probably do need to have an additional magnitude added for each additional increase in size, beyond +1. But I'm open to discussing it...

With regard to the Motte spell, the Finesse level seems low and inconsistent with the Craft Magic rules and the need to correctly place the earth and the amount of time necessary. Simple ease factor (EF6) is the work regularly done by untrained people, so it's a good starting point. Doing the work of a season in an instant adds another +6, for a final EF of 12.

If the troupe is OK with it, I don't object to adding levels for complexity to Rego Craft spells as a house rule. Such a rule would allow one to lower the finesse EF by 1 level for each additional magnitude of complexity. So, if you want the spell to be an EF of 6, make it Base 3, +2 Voice +1 part, +3 size, +2 complexity.

I'll do it like this, it's fine.

Question: I was considering replacing Inventive Genius with Imbued with the Spirit of Corpus from Realms of Power: Magic because it fits the concept much better. Then I seemed to recall that Jonathan.Link had only allowed the core book and the core and HoH books by default. But I can't find this ruling anywhere anymore. Do I recall incorrectly? If I do remember correctly, can I have that Imbued virtue anyway?

I ruled that spells from other books needed to be on a case by case basis, as to whether the character can get a lab text, otherwise the spell would have to be invented as a lab activity.

Why Imbued with the Spirit of Corpus? How are you intending to use it? Jotun are going to want to pound you into jelly.

The concept is that Proteus (and his parents) was subjected to freaky Cult of Heroes rituals that increase the likelihood of the Gift and maybe help with physical development or something. That's probably why he turned out like he did, and why his body is so closely linked to his magic (life boost, mutantum, personal vis source). I figured Imbued would fit well: maybe some of their rituals fed him Corpus. It would also enable Proteus to boost spells with long-term fatigue (synergy with Tamed), which is a nice bonus mechanically. It's not necessary, though, and the personal vis source sort of already covers that.

It's a good point about the Jotun. Maybe I don't want to begin with a default antagonism like that, so I'll find another virtue or stick with the one I had.

You missed mines :wink: :

1/Does the HR for wards also works on personal wards (pers/sun/ind) ou (touch/sun/ind) instead of (touch/ring/circle) ?

2/Is the Animae MuVi guideline in the HoH:MC p 95 to turn a spell into a fairy form specific ?

3/a/Would you allow MuVi spell to change the realm or creature realm alignement of a spell ?
Ex : Would you allow a MuVi Spell to allow circular ward against demon to now target faeries ?

b/ If so then would I need a different spell to change spells affecting : Auras ? Regiones ? Effects ? Vis ? (i'll provide one exemple for each)
Ex : Sense of magical power --> Sense of Faerie Power
Ex 2 : Piercing the magical veil --> Piercing the Faerie veil
Ex 3 : Sight of active magic --> Sight ot faerie magic
Ex 4 : Sense the nature of vis --> Sense the nature of fairie vis

c/What guideline would you chose ? "significantly change" would be my guess

That is correct. from pg 59 of Covenant in Craft Magic