HR Table Talk

This will make things easier if I put them here for discussion. I had a TT on rules thread somewhere, but I lost it :frowning:

This is the proposed revised HR in whole. This will not be a new HR, it will replace the existing HR.

Mustering Out
[tab][/tab]This is a term I picked up from the old Traveler game, used to refer to the final step of development where the final disposition of your assets is determined and any final bonuses are applied. At this time you can cash out some or all of your Hermetic wealth, spending vis as desired and/or keeping some in reserve for use in game. You can also liquidate any and all possessions that you purchased and/or created, receiving half the normal value. If you spend a season writing a grimoire or a summa, you can sell that. If you customized your lab, you can sell off your equipment and start fresh. Then there is the final bonus, a formula that rewards younger magi with power and potential, and benefits older magi with accomplishment and achievement. There is no penalty, just two different kinds of rewards.
Spending and Liquidating
[tab][/tab]First there is the sum total of all the vis you accumulated and didn't use, and you may keep and/or spend as much of this as you desire. Of the vis you choose to keep, the Form and Container must now be chosen. The Form may be of any of the regular ten, or you may trade in two pawns for one of any of the five regular Techniques. This is standard regular vis. The Container may be Natural or Artificial. A Natural Container is an object of original raw vis, such as a firedrake heart full of Ignem or a wyvern spike with Perdo. It is also possible to have moved the vis around in an object and remove the part where the vis is now located. You can have many pawns and rooks of Terram vis in a single rock if said rock was once part of a larger object that originally held the vis. An Artificial Container is one where vis is placed into after having been drained/drawn out of another object. These artificial containers have storage limits, based on the Shape & Material (ArM5, p. 97). Redcap Pawnbrokers like to use actual chess pieces of marble, steel, silver, and gold. It has also been incidentally discovered that, if the vis is all of the same Art, some materials can hold slightly more than others (use the Shape & Material Bonus).
[tab][/tab]But that is all fluff. The point is that you get to keep all your remaining vis. Decide what it is (1 for 1 of any Form, 2 for 1 of any Technique), and the rest of the details are up to you to invent (no tricks).
[tab][/tab]Then you may Liquidate any assets you wish to dispense with and no longer need, getting whatever cash value you can from them. This is best for items you have used up (books and lab texts you purchased), things you cannot move or cost too much to do so (your old lab), and so forth. Whatever the QP value would have been to buy that item, divide in half (round down), and that is what you receive. You may take this in Trade (spend it simply as QP), or take it in Cash (4qp equals a pawn of Vim, only Vim).

Vitality Bonus
[tab][/tab]Your Vitality is based upon your relative youth, how far from the possible maximum you held yourself back from. Age brings wisdom and power, and the system already rewards that well. Youth brings energy and potential, Vitality. Calculate your Vitality using the following formula.

[center]Potential Vitality = 142 - (Full Age + Hermetic Age + (5 x Cycles developed))[/center]
[center]Vitality Points = Pyramid Value of Vitality Potential, as if it were an Art.[/center]

[tab][/tab]The youngest possible maga, fresh from gauntlet at age 22, will have a score of 15. The oldest magus within limits, gauntlet at age 36 with 35 years of experience in seven short cycles, will have a score of 1.

Vitality in Play
[tab][/tab]Your Vitality will never increase, it will only decrease. Save these points and use them wisely. These are reserved for when your character needs a little extra boost, but once spent they are never recovered. In play, they may be used in various ways. You can use one or more applications &/or multiple instances of the same application, but this is a sure way to quickly waste all these points.

  • Restore Confidence: When you are depleted to zero points of confidence remaining, you can spend a point of Vitality to instantly recover three points. This is best if you need to use one or more of them right away, otherwise you should have just waited.
  • Resist & Recover Fatigue: You can spend a point of Vitality in place of spending a Fatigue Level (long or short term), or to quickly recover a level (instantly in that round).
  • Survival: When something happens that would otherwise kill or cripple the character (injury, evil magic, aging crisis, etc), spending a point of Vitality will insure that the character actually survives and recovers from their injuries without permanent after effects.
  • Advancement: By spending a point of Vitality, the character can manage to squeeze in an additional season's worth of activity in a year. This isn't a "fifth season". Rather, it is the culmination of extra time put into a side project. As such, this side project is limited to Study, being Taught, Practice, Spells, Writing/Crafting, and Charged Items. Any sort of vis handling, even study from vis, requires a solid block of time. Just as fluff, in the middle of a story you can crank out this side project in a month all at once. The math is the same, four regular seasons and a Vitality point spent to accomplish a fifth project.
  • Resist Aging: If you didn't like your Aging roll, you may spend a Vitality point to disregard it.

And another revision to the Price Guide. Simplified (hopefully)

Price Guide
[tab][/tab]The relative q.p.v. value of various Hermetic goods and services is listed below. As stated, each pawn spent is worth 4qp. When selling off/liquidating unwanted items, you receive half their normal value. If you want a better price in either case, use the optional rules below. For now, use this base price list.
[tab][/tab]For Redcaps, each pawn spent is actually worth 5qp, but only for acquiring approved Redcap items. However, when selling things off, they still receive one pawn of vis for every 4qp worth of goods sold (after adjusted for liquidation prices that is).
[size=125]Price List[/size]
(Standard Relative Values)

  • Tractatus - q.p. equal to Quality (maximum of 11)
  • Art Summa - q.p. equal to Quality + Level (maximum Level 15, maximum Quality of 25 - Level)
  • Ability Summa (General/Martial) - q.p. equal to Quality + twice level (maximum Level 6, maximum Quality of 20 - twice level)
  • Ability Summa (Academic/Arcane) - q.p. equal to Quality + three times level (maximum Level 6, maximum Quality of 25 - three times level)
  • Ability Summa (Supernatural/Mystery) - q.p. equal to Quality + five times level (maximum Level 5, maximum Quality of 30 - five times level)[list]
    • Other Books - Look to the "build point" cost in cannon for other types of books; such as a Florireglia, Folio, Commentary, Encyclopedia, etcetera.
    • Premium Books: Premium Books have twice the normal cost, but exceed normal maximums. A Tractatus may have a Quality as high as 15, a Summa on Arts may have a Level as high as 20 and a Quality as high as 35 - Level, and a Summa on Abilities can have a Level as high as 8 with a Quality as high as 35 - (3 x Level)
    • Vain/Poor Books: Crappy books cost half as much and have lower scores. A Tractatus may have a Quality no higher than 6. An Art Summa has a Level Limit of 10 and Quality limit of 15 - Level, or 9 (whichever is lower). An Ability Summa is limited to Level 3, and a Quality of no more than 15 - (3 x Level). Books on Supernatural/Mystery Abilities are never considered Poor.
  • Lab Texts Including Spells, Charged Items, Lesser Enchantments, and Investments. The base cost is 1q.p. per vive levels, but this may be adjusted for the format the texts are presented in.
    • Scrolls & Pamphlets - 1q.p. per five levels (Most Lab Texts are copied or written out individually as loose scrolls or neatly bound pamphlets or some such. This is for the ease of trading individual spells/enchantments, and are the Standard.)
    • Grimoire - 1q.p. per four levels (When a magus Writes Out his Lab Texts as a single bound work (as opposed to scrolls or pamphlets), he creates a Grimoire. This represents a season of effort, writing out levels equal to 20 x their Latin score, and individual texts cannot be divided out for later trade. The benefit is that you may conduct Lab Activities of different types &/or different Arts, so long as they all come from the same Grimoire. Use your lowest applicable Lab Total. Most are already written out in a theme; all spells, all lesser enchantments, spells useful to a sailor magus, and such. This benefit does not apply to a copy or texts written out from translation. Because it is a collection written out by somebody else, you may not have optimal choice over what the collection contains. But since I am not going to write it for you, write up a list with a theme that makes sense and at least one texts that sucks (a spell you already have) and give me the option to add or subtract something.
    • Tome - 1q.p. per six levels (A Tome is just a big collection of copied spells all bound together. There is no special advantage other than it keeps the texts from getting scattered, but on the other hand they cannot be divided out for individual trade. As fluff, you can say whatever individual loose texts you purchase are actually bound as a tome. But as used here, a Tome is a large stack of Lab Texts purchased in bulk. Many may be useful to you, some may not. Again, I don't want to design the book for you. Write up a list, include at least one spell that sucks (or that you already have), and allow me to add &/or subtract one or two spells.
    • Casting Tablet - 1q.p. per three levels (There is no benefit from gathering casting tablets together, and indeed they are more useful is separated for individual access.)
    • Exotic: twice normal cost (For the most part, I don't care if purchased texts come from cannon or are of your design. You are paying for them. Exotic texts involve spells requiring certain Mysteries and those involving Minor Breakthroughs such as a special Range or Duration.
  • Longevity Ritual - q.p. equal to Age + half of level (presumes level 50 or less taken by age 50 or sooner.
    • Premium Longevity - q.p. equal to level plus twice age (Higher than level 50 and/or taken after age 50.)
    • Redcap Longevity - q.p. equal to age + level, minus 85 (A level 50 ritual at age 35 is free, but with this formula, a Redcap may obtain a ritual of high level at any age by paying the difference.)
  • Enchanted Items
    • Charged Items - q.p. equal to changes + half of level
    • Lesser Enchantments 6q.p. per five levels (or 1q.p. per level plus 1q.p. every full five levels)
    • Invested Device - 12q.p. per five levels plus 12q.p. per remaining open pawn
    • Item of Quality - q.p. equal to five times the bonus provided (The same rule of thumb applies to items of exceptional mundane craftsmanship that provide a bonus.)
    • Miscellaneous - q.p. equal to five times a bonus or five times a score provided
    • Rare - three times normal value (Items that are still Hermetic but require a special Virtue or Mystery.)
    • Very Rare - five times equivalent value (Non Hermetic Items, not that they are more powerful, just that they are expensive because they are scarce in the Hermetic Economy.)
  • Hirelings - highest Characteristic + highest Ability, plus 3 x value of any special Virtues (Henchmen & Specialists beyond your Companion & two Grog characters; created as Grog level characters)
  • Other Services 10q.p. Trivial (a few days effort), 30q.p. Minor (few weeks effort), 60q.p. Major (full season effort), 10060q.p. or more for Exceptional (undefined); or q.p. equal to twelve times the vis cost.
  • Mundane Wealth - 160q.p. equals 3£ of silver and/or equivalent material wealth.
  • Laboratory - During Development, you can spend time Refining and Customizing your Lab using the modified rule; It takes one season to install/rearrange a balanced number of Virtues & Flaws, as allowed for Refinement & Size. You can set this up at any time and use it all through development, even if in your backstory your character has moved around locations. However, when you enter play you must put all that aside and start with a fresh new lab. Optionally, you may spend q.p.v. to hand-wave the process, paying to have Refinement improved (up to a maximum of your Magic Theory - 3) and Virtues installed without occupying your time. If you paid for your Lab, you may keep it as is when you enter play. If you built your lab, you may preserve it by paying a trivial sum. The base presumes a Size 0 Lab set up and ready to go, with no Minor or Major Virtues or Flaws (Free ones are of trivial concern).
    • Large Lab - q.p. equal to 10 times the pyramid value of Size (Size must be paid for separately, even if you do the rest of the work yourself.)
    • Refinement - q.p. equal to Refinement x 10, up to a maximum of your Magic Theory -3
    • Virtues - 10q.p. Minor, 20q.p. Major (Maximum Virtues equals Size + Refinement, adjusted for by Flaws taken at no cost. You may benefit from a number of Flaw points equal to your Magic Theory score.)[/list:u]

[tab][/tab]If you are 35 or older at the start of a cycle, or turn 39 by the end of it, you must check for Aging that cycle and each thereafter. Calculate and consult your Aging Score.
[center]Aging Score = Age/10 (round up) - Living Conditions modifier - Longevity Ritual modifier - other bonuses (Bronze Cord, Faerie Blood, Lab, etcetera)[/center]
[tab][/tab]Then subtract 2.
[tab][/tab]This system is lifted from Grogs chapter 5, which is based on solid ten year cycles. However, these cycles average only 7 years and are variable. Thus there is incentive to develop using longer cycles, you don't age as rapidly when you live a slower pace of life. You age faster with shorter cycles, but not to a crippling degree.
[tab][/tab]The Aging Score is calculated and applied at the end of the cycle, using your age at that point and all conditions as that then exist. So even if at the end of a ten year cycle you just turned 41, made your longevity ritual at the start of the last year and bonded a familiar with a +3 Bronze cord the last season, all these factors apply for the whole cycle.
[tab][/tab]Your adjusted Aging Score, if positive, is how many Aging Points you accumulate that cycle (distributed as you will). If 5 or higher, you suffer a Crisis that cycle. If the adjusted score is negative, your Apparent Aging is slowed. Starting at an Apparent Age of 35 (or younger if you look longevity for youthful vanity at an earlier age); your appearance ages a number of years equal to (10 + your Aging Score), with a minimum of 0 and not to exceed the number of years in that cycle (or years since you turned 35).

Yes, this is simpler, and probably way better.

Overall, I like the thing, my only concern is that the bonuses for young magi are lessened a lot over previous versions, due to the lower number of Vitality points. Like, the only difference between a fresh magus of age 25 and his sodales at 35 is 1 vitality. This strikes me as too low. It also somewhat lends itself to min-maxing with age.
In that respect, I think the previous mode of calcul was both better and simpler.

but that winds up with so many points and it becomes cheep to use them.
But I see your point. I will ponder a revised formula

Yes, especially for confidence.

I've considered the possibility of having a score which you could substitute to an art or ability based on "vitality as XP", at the cost of one vitality, but it gets unyieldy, and is not always interesting.

Vitality = 100 - (Full Age + Hermetic Age + 3 x (Cycles developed))
Young (22 years): 78 pts
Middle Aged (40 years, 15 years pg, 3 cycles): 36 points
Seasoned (61 years, 26 years pg, 4 cycles): 1 points
Old (70 years, 35 pg, 7 cycles): - 26

  • Resist & Recover Fatigue: You can spend 2 (and only 2) points of Vitality in place of spending a Fatigue Level (long or short term), or 05 to quickly recover a level (instantly in that round).
  • Survival: When something happens that would otherwise kill or cripple the character (injury, evil magic, aging crisis, etc), spending 5 points of Vitality will insure that the character actually survives and recovers from their injuries without permanent after effects.
  • Resist Aging: If you didn't like your Aging roll, you may spend 5 Vitality point to disregard it.
  • Advancement: Young characters grow quickly, and learn from experience and adventure. When gaining adventure XP, you may spend 1 vitality to gain 5 extra XP, up to the maximum reward of the adventure.
  • Youthful Vitality: Before attempting an action or rolling for soak, you may spend vitality on the arts table to give you a one-time bonus similar to confidence (A young magi could give himself a +3 bonus 13 times.

In short, dividing by 05 gives roughly as many points as before where it hurts. But that's more streamlined, and then, there's the Adventure XP that both allows the use of extra points, encourages youngsters to go out and lessens the gap with elders.

If negative, take that many points as Warping, half that as Aging points, or any combination of the two.
The RAW has warping at 2 points per year, while, aside from that chosen by PCs, magi in Andorra only suffer warping from LR. This represents anything from a bad aging roll to being subjected to a powerful effect to botching a spell, and actually encures that elders will have at least some non-LR warping (I mean, even with Mastery and Cautious Sorcerer, one can always botch while fighting in an infernal aura, for exemple, or make a bad aging roll).

Note for the record: Yes, arachné is old :smiley:

You know what? Scrap all this stuff for now. I mean, if you guys really want to use any of it, let me know, But the old system has worked for the past year, and I fear that the HR creep is dragging us down.