ice = perdo ignem?

Why is it lower magnitude to freeze stuff with perdo ignem then the Arts more closely related to Ice.

Terram - manipulation of solids things of the earth
Aquam - ice = frozen water
Aurum - realm of Air, is cold.

Part of this comes from not likeing Perdo or Ignem. I'm biased though, most the flambue i've seen in PnP are powergamed kill machines.

It seems like Ignem got more powerful in 5th ed. As though hemetic theory is based on principles that it doesn't know about, at least in western europe.

I'm half expecting to find an invisibility spell based on Rego Ignem, since Intellego Ignem can be used to see invisible people.

Ack! Just stab me through the heart why don't you?

It seems odd to me as well. As I understand Perdo, it destroys, makes worse. Ice is not a destroyed or worse fire. Could I use Perdo Corpus to a dead body live? Of course not. But that would seem to be the logic used to have Perdo Ign. make ice (the opposite of fire). I would allow it to destroy a heat source, but I would say that once you are at "room" temperature, then the Perdo effect has "bottomed out" and you would need to use other arts to lower it further.

It's kind of a rubber magic suggestion (and Apprentice's Parma on the guidelines), but maybe Perdo Ignem is better suited to freezing water by virtue of enhancing the Cool property of water and this is somehow more efficient than using Rego to do the same?

Just a suggestion (I never did understand Primary Qualities...)

This may be out of paradigm, but here goes...
Cold is not a property. Rather, it is the lack of a property (heat). In theory, I can PeIg the temperature of something all the way down to absolute zero.

If you just want ice then use CrAq. You can make ice just not cold ice.

You cant MAKE ice with PeIg, but you CAN freeze water with it.

For MAKING ice, use CrAq.

You can make ice, ice is cold, but it wont STAY cold if the surroundings are not also cold.


until your PbP game i never knew a flambue was anything more

I'll have to double check Arm5 but i think the examples of freezing water was higher magnitude for Rego Aquam than Perdo Ignem.

Well, :smiley:, I shall take the compliment then.
Ironic, I m the guy that idolizes old school Flambeau, I am the one who acquired the reputation as that Flambeau guy, yet I have managed to Elighten many by the Light of the Torch :wink:

Base 3 ReAq, probably base 4 PeIg, but the former is direct, you get instant ice from water, the latter means cooling water until it freezes, which probably wont be instant as the description for base 4 in one spell is "slightly below freezing".

Here is the difference between the arts.

If you are near a lake, river, stream, etc... You can easily PeIg and get yourself plenty of ice. If you are the middle of the desert, no matter how much PeIq, you aren't getting ice as there is no water to freeze into that ice.

CrAq: Create Ice
PeIq: Chill what already there to become Ice.

It is one of those things that goes back the infinite ways to skin a dead rabbit (someone told me that they once figured a way to do it for every form).

It was skinning a cat, no mention if it was live or dead. It was a Berklist exercise, they demonstarted how to literally "skin a cat" using nearly every combination of Technique & Form.

Which, ironically, stemmed from another Perdo conversation (using Perdo to shave or mine)

Magic ice does not have to be cold. I can make Ice that is hot and will burn you. It's magic.