InIm Spell questions

If I have a spell to see sb at a distance like this

InIm25 Change of Perspective
You can move your viewpoint to any place you can see and see from there as if you were standing there. You can turn around at your new point of view.
Base 1: Use one sense at a distance
+3 sight
+1 conc
+4 vision


  1. Is this a spell that is correct?
  2. Can I use sight range spells after using this spell (e.g. to attack around a corner)
  3. Can I use this spell repeatedly to move my vision further and further away?

Doesn't that mean you are applying the spell to someone within Sight range, as opposed to Personal?

Range: where you put your sense
Target: there is no need to give a sense target, because you are not enhancing your sense, but moving its center. Inside buildings, use room target. outside building, individual target for close perception, group target for more covered area.

  1. So how do I correctly build a spell that allows me to see as if I was standing at any one point I can see?
  2. Can I use magically improved sight with range sight spells?

RAW states that magical enhancements to Voice cannot extent the Range. There's no such statement for Sight, so using mirrors or magic seems ok.

Hm, I've got someone wanting to invent a spell similar to this using Atlantean Magic from ROP: M.

Waterways range.... a spell to move your sight and hearing to any point on a waterway. I'm just not sure what the "Target" is as the "remote sense use" aspect of Imaginem does not mesh well with the rest of the Form and the meaning of "Individual", from what I'm looking at.

Has anyone tackled this?

No books on me, so apologies for vague references:

  1. Vis-a-vis the original spell, Exar is correct. There is an example in ArM5 itself, I believe.

  2. Tugdual, although your statement is correct, I'm not sure if that was what the question was asking. It may have been if, for example, you've enhanced your sight to include night vision, whether or not you have night vision at the new location where you've placed your sense of sight. I would expect so. I don't see it canceling the night vision, and I don't see it leaving your night vision in one place while moving your regular vision to another.

  3. As for waterways, I believe there is a canonical spell just like that with some sort of road magic. I don't remember if that's via faerie magic or via the Roman roadways. I would check for the two. My quick guesses would be MoH or TMRE.


The canon example is on page 145...

Summoning the Distant Image

InIm 25
i [/i]See & hear in a place if you have an AC to that place or a person there.
(Base 2 (Use 2 senses at a distance), +4 Arc, +1 Conc, +2 Room)
The idea, afaict, is that the "Target" is the image you are seeing, so with the above effect the Caster can look around for a perhaps a half-dozen paces or so, or a full room if there is one there.*

(* Note that the caster cannot then see into the next room, or even down a hall or beyond any doorway/window/archway, to then cast a second similar spell there and so on.)

While casting the spell to move your perspective "as far as the mage can see" is not a problem (Range:Sight), having a new range of vision of "horizon" from there is a bit more problematic. T:Boundary is out (unless you want it to require a Ritual), so T:Structure is the best you can achieve - and the SG determines how far the magically moved vision can then see.

So the spell you want would be something like:

As Far as the Eye Can See

InIm 20
(Base 1, +3 Sight, +1 Conc, +3 Structure)
(Note also that the mage is blind to their actual, immediate surroundings while this spell is in effect.) :wink:

You mean does magically improved Sight extend the Range of spells with Range:Sight? Yes. And any magical enhancements also are extended. (And contrariwise, if blinded (magically or otherwise), a spell like this does not bypass that blindness.) It's your Vision that is being moved, however that operates at the moment.

In fact, that's one of the ways to "perceive" Targets that are beyond normal perception. You cast a spell like this, and perceive "stuff" - even if there is no light (more common w/ Range:AC), an area effect spell (or a light spell) with Range:Sight would work fine, because you are perceiving the dark space (if only that).

Technically, that spell does not work at all if there is no Room at the target location. Room Target requires a room to target, it won't target an area equivalent to a Room.

So, if the target is standing on a windswept moor, say, you have to use a different spell.

Technically, yes, agreed - but the canon spell certainly isn't described that way. It reads "... a distant place", not "a distant room".

And what other Target would you suggest as (more) approp? Altho' it goes directly against the T:Room definition, it fits no other better. So is it impossible (without a breakthrough) to create a spell like this to scry on something on the aforementioned "windswept moor"? I would suggest - no. It's a variation and an exception, and one that needs to be made. Perhaps a clarifying subsection (similar to Wards) would have been more approp, but I don't think the intent of the use of Target:Room as presented is unclear.

Hmmm... I took a quick look. I think some of the spells I was remembering were from the spells wiki. Sorry.


Are you sure? It's (p. 112) explicitly stated that you cannot do this with R: Voice - why is R: Sight different?

If you're referring to the phrase "Magical enhancement of the voice does not increase this range", yes, I'm sure. But it's a good question.

I would suggest several reasons:

  1. Because that same phrase is not found under Sight. (This above all.)
  2. Amplifying a voice is a trivial and obvious work-around, while shifting vision (while perhaps obvious) is not trivially done.
  3. So that the rules do not encourage spells that allow one to shout at a million decibels and cast spells around the entire county (which would work-around a number of other RDT's, breaking the system at that point. Not true w/ Vision.)
    So, it's both RAW, and to preserve the balance of the system as presented. Otherwise, a 1st magnitude CrIm effect would improve every R:Voice spell to be superior to R:Vision in almost every way, and the hills of Mythic Europe would echo with abusive magi using that particular ploy.

I'm not disagreeing, merely playing the devil's advocate here, but:
If I use eg. Summoning the Distant Image to view someone to whom I had an AC, would you then allow me to cast R: Sight spells on them?
I can see them, after all.

Of course. "Anything the magus can see", period - that doesn't invite a lot of interpretation. (One reason why AC's are so powerful!)

Why not?

Possibly, but it has to be a "place" that meets the target requirements; i.e. a room.

Well, Room is fine if the target is in a room. So it is a totally valid and acceptable spell as is.

However, Target Individual would let you see the individual where-ever he was; but wouldn't give you significant information about his location. However, you should be able to tell enough to figure out that he is inside/outside/on a moor/in a desert/underwater/etc. So, such a spell would provide less information than a Room target, but would work on occasions when the target wasn't in a room.

Then, Target Part would let you see the Part of the larger piece of terrain that the target was in --- so, for example, a fragment of the windswept moor that includes the target --- which should probably be enough to identify the specific moor if you are familiar with it. If you want to see a larger piece of the moor add size modifiers to the spell (to see a larger part).

An Imagonem base individual is the size of a man, so if using target part and size modifiers how much could one percieve by using one sense at a distance?

Should one compare the area percieved with the size of a crowd composed of 10, 100, 1000 people according to size multipliers?

Seems reasonable. Whatever works for your troupe would be fine.

I know this is the definition, but this means certain spells can't ever be used outdoors! SUmmoning the Distant Image is one. Winds of Mundane Silence is another. Whoever wanted to remove seberal spell effects while outside?
IMHO these are remnants of legacy spells.
Sometimes you really just need a Target allowing the magus to affact an area not befined by walls, circle, or a boundary. Look at some of the Terram spells with T:Part. Without looking in books I recall Pit of the Gaping Earth. Could the aforementioned spells be T:Part instead?

I would be inclined to say no, because of the potential abuse. It just seems too easy, and contrary to what R: Voice is defined as.