Initiation Scripts at Covenant Creation

Is there any cost associated with owning initiation scripts as there is with books during covenant creation? This is of course assuming the covenant houses its own mystery cult.

I think they should be purchased through Build Points. I think there are two basic options:

  1. Cost them on the script bonus
  2. Cost them on the ease factor PLUS the script bonus

Regardless of which you choose, I'd turn that total into a Build Point cost.

According to Hedge Magic, p.46, witch covens (basically Covenants of Folk Witches) pay a number of Build Points for each script equal to the script bonus, regardless of the ease factor.

Ouch. Seems expensive.

Secret knowledge always is... :slight_smile:

Nah. One soul here and there, a few babies to be sacrificed.... Nothing out of the usual. :mrgreen:

For a coven those are among their most previous resources, so I am not surprised they are not easy side dishes for them

If you don't like the cost, pay for it with some stories... :smiley:

Does it? Not to me. The cost of 1 script is about the cost of 1 book.
Assuming a Pre+Cult lore of 6, a script for a minor virtue known to the mystagogue (a +9 bonus) costs somewhere between a vain Tractatus (Q6 according to Covenants) and a sound one (Q11 according to Covenants). A major script for a Major Virtue unknown to the mystagogue (a +24 bonus) has a cost equivalent to a good Art primer (say, a Summa L6 Q18) or a so-so mid-level summa (say, L15 Q9 for Arts or L5 Q9 for Abilities).

Seems rather cheap to me?

While we're at it: Can initiation scripts be copied? If so, according to what rules - tractati? Also, when modifying an intiation script, I'm guessing the original is permanently changed and remains thusly until someone else tries to reverse modify it?

There's no reason it couldn't be copied - except that mystery cults are notoriously secretive about their rites.
No rules are given fo how - tracatus-style seems good to me - assuming it was written down in the first place.

As for modifying it... why would it be changed permanently? Why assume though, that the initiate ever learns of that there was another version of the rite he went through? Many of these secrets are never written down, only ever shared orally, or by putting people through them.

Tractati. If you modify a script the origianl remains, and you have a new modified copy of the script. That is my understanding, and while I was 50% of the TMRE authors, it is not necessarily correct. Caribet (the other author) would have a more authoritative answer, and ultimately David Chart is the final authority so my opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt. :slight_smile:

cj x

Is copying quickly a possibility? If so, what would be the repercussions? The boni stem from the ordeals the initiate has to go through, not from the quality of the text.

[strike]As for the original being modified, I was thinking this might be the case given how TMRE states that initiation scripts tend to get pretty long over time. Also, removing an element of an initiation script requires modifying it, so having "older" copies lying around might defeat the purpose of this.

So is a new copy of an initiation script actually created every time it's modified?[/strike]

Edit: Okay, found the part where it clarifies this. Which raises another question: How long does it take to write down an initiation script? A season as with tractati?

Once you have a copy, why would you want more?

Besides, must cult members are likely to tell you that these things cannot be properly written down, it is the experence that matters

Backup copies, multiple cult locations located in different regions or locations, use for self-initiation at a later date, ...

And yet it states in the rules that you have to write down a modified script in order for others to use it. :wink:

Oh I can see all of those uses, that doesn't answer the core question though.
Knowledge is power, and in the case of mystery cults, knowledge shared is power lost.

sigh
That still wasn't the point...

Just because you make a copy for internal use doesn't mean you "share" the power. But even if you restrict your view to that perspective, knowing how to copy initiation scripts would be relevant for trying to steal them.

I'm well aware Mystery Cults are supposed to be shrouded in, well, mystery, but below all that is a rules construct that I'm trying to clarify for use in-game. :wink:

I realise this - and it even has direct impact in my own p'n'p saga, but even so...

I take this matter to discuss about breakthroughs.

You can always imagine that the founder of a covenant dedicated to a particular subject (like how to break one hermetic limit) has left, before sinking in the final twilight, some of his texts on advanced researches, which would be a starting point for young magi.

How many build points would cost these laboratory texts providing breakthrough points ?

I thought 10 build points by breakthrough point... What do you think?

I don't think you need to price them. How many breakthrough points you still need when you start your saga, or when you embark on achieving a breakthrough, is a choice made by the Storyguide based on the requirements of the Story. How many points you already have, given that, say, 30 more are needed, is mostly colour. Whether your spring covenant is starting from scratch on a new minor Breakthrough, or it's going for a Major Breakthrough based on the almost complete research a long lost Bonisagus, you should just design a spring covenant.

Pricing the breakthrough points you already have just creates confusion in my opinion, because significant progress in a breakthrough requires effort of the same order as the resources of a starting Covenant. Thus, breakthrough points end up being either too cheap (and I think 10-1 is too cheap), or eating up so many Build points that they completely distort the season of your covenant.