Integrating Hermetic magic into Solomonic magic

There's been some talk already about integrating non-hermetic magics into Hermetic Magic Theory. But I want to ponder now on the other way around. Imagine a sahir from the Order of Suleyman that wants to integrate some aspect of Hermetic Magic into Solomonic Magic (like spontaneous spells, for example). This is fully covered in The Craddle and the Crescent, specifically on pages 44-45.

But even though the integration rules from Ancient Magic work wonderfully for integrating Solomonic magic into Hermetic magic, there's a small problem when trying to use them the other way around: getting an Insight requires an Intelligence + Magic Theory roll, but there's no Magic Theory for Solomonic magic.

I've been thinking about it, but would like to know what would be your take on the subject before putting my own ideas forward, to avoid biasing replies.

They would first need to create a Magic Theory for Solomonic Magic to be able to integrate anything. Seems strange that they don't have one.


Stranger still is how they can already do original research (for things other than Magic Theory) even if they don't have a theory of their own at the moment.
Sahirs are quite the oddballs like this, no?

Here is one suggestion for how this could potentially be addressed; It seems they already have a good enough understanding of their own magic that they can expand it and implement foreign magics into their own system, so developing a new theory just so they can get insights using the rules from Ancient Magic is, imo, an overkill. Besides, there is already a Cunning Folk (Learned Magician) in Ireland trying to make a new theory, so far he gained all his breakthrough points through Insights. You don't need a Theory to make those checks, but it sure helps.

What you could do is slightly tweak their Magical Defenses, specifically the ones associated with Solomonic Astrology. Make it so that it gives you a bonus on Insight checks equal to your Solomonic Astrology / 5 (rounded up). Someone with Strong Magical Defenses virtue would make for an excellent Solomonic Researcher.

The Sahir's Magic Defenses are already quite unique as is, so I don't think it'd be an issue.


That was my first thought, as well. It felt right for the setting.

But, first off, from a metagame point of view, it seems like it would unnecessarily punish a player playing a Sahir. Given how they are already way less powerful than Hermetic magi, it seems a little harsh on the player.

Also, The Cradle and the Crescent does mention sahirs integrating hermetic magic into their own, and does not mention the need to create a "Solomonic Magic Theory" at all. So it feels like the intention of the author was that Sahir could integrate hermetic magic right off the bat, and that it was a mere oversight not realizing that the process needed a Magic Theory roll.

So I think it would be excessive and probably not the author's intention to require them to first create a Salomonic Magic Theory. Which is why I discarded this line of thought.

Keep in mind that Sahir do research via seasonal summoning, which requires a magic spirit to be present. That might remove the need for a magic theory, as a magical being is assisting you directly.


Yes, removing the need for Magic Theory to make the roll makes sense. But it still penalizes them if they then have to make an Intelligence roll to find the Insight, without any ability. So I guess they should be allowed to add something to it, and not just Intelligence.

As for my personal take on integration for sahirs, and based on the seasonal summoning experimentation rules on TCatC page 43, I'm personally considering them rolling Intelligence + ( Astrology / 5 ) to find Insights, with the usual Easy Factor of 18. Then, when they get the Insight and have to create the effect with experimentation, I'd say they have to choose two Arts and add a simple die to the Lab Total, as with their normal experimentation, but don't get any secondary effect from that since what they're aiming to get is the special effect from the Insight. Since there's no roll on the experimentation table for them, they just need to avoid botching. This mimicks their roll on the stabilization season, just like the normal Hermetic integration process does.

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