Investigating an enchantment in situ (i.e., not in the lab)

Both of these.
But what further sticks in my craw, is that the size of the bonus you "discover" isn't really related to how relevant the object is, just to the size of your numbers. Yes, I know there's supposed to be a sort of "appropriate-ness modifier", but if you're good at this trick, you can practically define something to be of strong benefit in a specific kind of magic. Which bothers me.

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From some of the books not included in the PDF. Maybe somebody can update it?

Magi of Hermes, page 102
Battle Standard +2 leadership (?)
Magi of Hermes, page 103
Loom +2 Imaginem
Loom +4 weave cloth
Covenants, page 82
Aetites +5 fertility
Mythic Locations, page 71
Arsenic +8 magic that kills directly, without intermediate media
Arsenic +4 preservation of dead things from decay
Arsenic +2 stimulating the ill
Legends of Hermes, page 125
Agate +3 Auram (may be a typo that should have been "air"?)
Griffon's Nest of Gold +7 defense of home
Griffon's Nest of Gold +7 protection of treasure
Against the Dark, page 33
Flint +9 causing paralysis
Flint +6 protection from faeries
Flint +3 Ignem
Against the Dark, page 131
Black Hawthorn +7 protection from vampires
Black Hawthorn +4 protection from evil
Black Hawthorn +4 prevent disease
Between Sand & Sea, page 62
Asafoetidia +3 protect against evil spirits
Between Sand & Sea, page 73
Cypress (same as HoH:MC)
Lands of the Nile, page 89
Kassalan Dust +3 against the dead
Faith & Flame, page 123
Salt +5 preservation
Salt +3 protection from evil spirits and demons
Faith & Flame, page 125
Purple (murex) dye +10 royalty
Purple (murex) dye +7 rulership and authority
Purple (murex) dye +5 control people
Crimson (kermes) dye +7 violence
Crimson (kermes) dye +4 courage and martyrdom
Crimson (kermes) dye +3 sin
Lavender +3 cleansing / purification or healing
Lavender +5 protection from evil spirits
The Sundered Eagle, page 45
Porphyry +10 royalty
Porphyry +7 rulership and authority
Porphyry +5 control people
The Sundered Eagle, page 56
Magnes Stone, male +7 control iron
Magnes Stone, male +3 divination
Magnes Stone, female +3 purification
Magnes Stone, female +2 invisibility

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I never went through and did the math, but I was under the impression that Vulgar alchemy allowed you to use new bonuses more quickly than standard hermetic breakthrough research. a pathetic virtue, even if that is the case, but not exactly worthless...
I assume that a new material or shape bonus would be a minor breakthrough, which means 30 breakthrough points over multiple seasons- even if you reduced the breakthrough points it couldn't be used in a single season like the virtue allows...if you decide that a shape or material bonus only needs a number of breakthrough points equal to the total bonuses, you still have to spend at least 2 seasons on the project, and accumulate warping...

OTOH, given the number of things S&M bonuses affect it seems you should be able to deduce them from a magic lore roll...

It should be way less. IIRC converting hermetic magic from using Latin to another language is a 15. Coming up with a Shape and Material bonus should be even easier.

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As a breakthrough, I'd go with twice or three times the S&M bonus. Thankfully, in our saga Vulgar Alchemy has been integrated and simplified.

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Is there any chance you would be willing to share the rules for the integrated and simplified version of vulgar alchemy that your saga uses, to inform the discussion in this thread?

Sure thing.

This is what we use:

"Integrated Vulgar Alchemy:

During any seasonal activity which uses Shape and Material bonuses (enchanting items, potent spells) a maga can develop a new Shape & Material bonus.

The troupe will determine the maximum bonus a Shape or Material can provide and players must track what Shapes and Material Bonuses they have developed.

During a season, a maga can learn to incorporate up to her (Magic Lore / 3) of that bonus. Thus, after one season of work, a maga with Magic Lore 6 could develop a new Shape or Material bonus of +2. In a second season, if the Shape or Material had a higher maximum bonus, that same maga could develop a Shape or Material bonus of +4. During lab activities over multiple season, the maga can only use the bonus learned from their first season (the lowest bonus).

Once the maximum bonus is developed by a maga, she can share that knowledge with others. By writing a tractatus on Magic Theory or Magic Lore, a maga can include the knowledge of one Shape or Material bonus. In a Summae, the maga can include knowledge of (2 x {Magic Lore / 3}) Shape or Material bonuses. A labtext can include knowledge of all the S&M bonuses used in the project."

We've only recently added it, so we haven't illuminated any situations where it might be broken yet.

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that seems very reasonable to me and I now have to consider implementing it in my own saga. thank you for sharing.

In our saga we have been able to investigate objects and effects outside magi laboratories by using some variant of Opening the Intangible Tunnel.

The spell variant must be kept active or renewed for the entire timespan of the investigation, and the Intellego Vim lab total is capped by the level allowed by Intangible Tunnel variant.

Maybe it's not fully canonical, but it suits our style of play.

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I like this. Makes it possible but limited.