Is an Arcane Connection spell plausible?

[ironboundtome]

hello folks,
I'm pondering a spell that creates a temporary arcane connection between the caster and an object. My suss on the spell is below, but I think there may be a breakthrough required to do this, and could also see an interpretation that says its just not plausible due to the way connections might be "made".

I remember something in the 3rd ed. online grimoire having a similar spell, but cannot find that version and it may be moot in 5th. {edit: O found the ref to 5th ed version; it is different http://spellswiki.wikidot.com/creo-vim]

Spell breakdown:

The Mystical Anchor Creo Vim 20, R: Touch, D: Ring, T: Individual

The spell creates a temporary arcane connection between the object touched and the caster, and holds that connection in place for the duration of the Ring. For the purpose of power and maintenance the initial arcane connection is considered to have a duration of hours, but is them maintained by the Ring. This means that the Perdo Vim effects that destroy arcane connections can affect this spell easily (level 5 base effect for Hours).

The arcane connection may then be used by the caster to target the object at range: Arc.

(Base: 5, +1 Touch, +2 Ring)

I think the core point of discussion for this spell is what the base effect level would be.

In the ArM5 Creo Vim guidelines a level 3 creates a taint, and each 5 levels can inflict a point of warping. In relative terms of power an arcane connection normally requires the expenditure of Vis to be made permanent, and a fair effort of activity to construct; however that is to create connections which are indefinite and permanent. A connection in magic is probably similar in power to a warping effect, so I chose level 5 as base effect.

This spell mechanics then take that temporary connection and extend it via a duration of D: Ring.

My doubt is that the extension via ring is a work around for actually having to craft a more permanent connection spell, which would be higher magnitude (more in line with the PeVi guidelines for destroying connections).

Another thought is that a more powerful version of this spell could be crafted to make the base effect more resilient to Perdo Vim magic. To do this increase the magnitude of the spell for each step up the arcane connection duration (ArM p. 84). That way the spell to destroy the connection would need to defect level 30 effect rather than a level 5 effect.

Has anyone considered this in 5e?

[YR7]

I don't like the use of the Ring duration. It says

The spell lasts until the target of the spell moves outside a ring drawn at the time of casting, or until the ring is physically broken.

[having a legal PDF on hand to copy-paste from is great!], but I always took that to mean the target must be within the ring or else be created in it (for a Creo spell); the spell in principle lasts until the target leaves, but is broken if the ring is. I would allow a spell that creates an arcane connection to something inside the inscribed ring, e.g. drawing a ring around a staff so that it can later be called with a spell. Note that such a ring would also be an arcane connection to you...

So unless something like this is the intention, I would change the duration to Concentration and instill it into an item that maintains concentration, or else use Moon duration or something like that.

As for the guideline itself, I think Base 5 sounds good-enough, and I would actually allow it even without any breakthrough or something like that. Seems like the sort of things that should be doable. It certainly does not seem to violate the laws of magic, so I would not peg it as an Hermetic breakthrough; Major at most, probably Minor if I wanted to keep it out of the hands of most magi.

Cheers,

Yair

[ironboundtome]

@YR7

I don't like the use of the Ring duration. It says

The spell lasts until the target of the spell moves outside a ring drawn at the time of casting, or until the ring is physically broken.

[having a legal PDF on hand to copy-paste from is great!], but I always took that to mean the target must be within the ring or else be created in it (for a Creo spell); the spell in principle lasts until the target leaves, but is broken if the ring is.

Ah, I wasn't sure if that guideline meant that either condition could be used for Ring separately, or if they both applied when a Ring is used.
I see what is meant now, and its different from my intended use for the spell. I'll have to re-think the application.

@YR7

I would allow a spell that creates an arcane connection to something inside the inscribed ring, e.g. drawing a ring around a staff so that it can later be called with a spell. Note that such a ring would also be an arcane connection to you...

So unless something like this is the intention, I would change the duration to Concentration and instill it into an item that maintains concentration, or else use Moon duration or something like that.

As for the guideline itself, I think Base 5 sounds good-enough, and I would actually allow it even without any breakthrough or something like that. Seems like the sort of things that should be doable. It certainly does not seem to violate the laws of magic, so I would not peg it as an Hermetic breakthrough; Major at most, probably Minor if I wanted to keep it out of the hands of most magi.

Cheers,

Yair

On second look, none of this really needs a breakthrough, it seems well within scope for hermetic magic; just a little sideways in application perhaps.

My intents for the spell were:
(A) to have an item in my sancta which was an arcane connection, without opening it using vis each time. eg. I put an object in the ring and then I have a connection back to that object, but it gives flexibility in what that object is each time the spell is cast. This way I can always teleport back to the object, which happens to be in my lab. The ring could even be moved with the object intact if new locations were desired.

I think the spell still works in this manner, as the object must sit in the circle. That makes sense.

(B) to also allow creation of arcane connections on-the-fly for short periods. eg. I am out on an adventure and wish to get home and back again very quickly. I grab an object, cast the spell, and drop it there. I can now use that as an AC later when I want to, as long as its within the duration. All those nice srying spells become far more useful when you can create temporary ACs.

This will need a separate spell, as you've pointed out that a different Duration and effect is more plausible. No problem, I'll draw up another for that. Thanks for the input!
cheers IBT

[callen]

@ironboundtome

Has anyone considered this in 5e?

You might want to look at the CrVi guidelines in the pdf on the Atlas site or at RoP:TI (p. 121). It has been done in canon, though it was specifically for demons.

Chris

[JeanMichelle]

Have you checked out the spellguidelines in MoH?

The magus there uses an item to preserve arcane connections.

[ironboundtome]

Alas I don't have either book in either pdf or hard copy. I'll see if I can find a source, or perhaps pick up the pdfs.
cheers IBT

[callen]

@ironboundtome

Alas I don't have either book in either pdf or hard copy. I'll see if I can find a source, or perhaps pick up the pdfs.
cheers IBT

Go to the Atlas site and get ArM5Guidelines.pdf and read the CrVi stuff. I haven't updated it recently, but there haven't been too many guidelines in recent books, either.

Chris

[Halancar]

@ironboundtome

My intents for the spell were:
(A) to have an item in my sancta which was an arcane connection, without opening it using vis each time. eg. I put an object in the ring and then I have a connection back to that object, but it gives flexibility in what that object is each time the spell is cast. This way I can always teleport back to the object, which happens to be in my lab. The ring could even be moved with the object intact if new locations were desired.

I think the spell still works in this manner, as the object must sit in the circle. That makes sense.

Or you could just fix an arcane connection to your lab and use it over and over. For that matter, prying a chunk of wood/stone from the floor would also work.

@ironboundtome

(B) to also allow creation of arcane connections on-the-fly for short periods. eg. I am out on an adventure and wish to get home and back again very quickly. I grab an object, cast the spell, and drop it there. I can now use that as an AC later when I want to, as long as its within the duration. All those nice srying spells become far more useful when you can create temporary ACs.

This will need a separate spell, as you've pointed out that a different Duration and effect is more plausible. No problem, I'll draw up another for that. Thanks for the input!
cheers IBT

And this time you could grab a pebble lying around, or snap a twig from a tree, and take them with you, they are short duration AC back to the place/tree you took them from.

So what you are trying to do isn't something game-breaking. But there is one problem: if you allow on-the-fly ACs, how long will it be before someone creates one to an opponent, and uses it to easily boost his Penetration for following, high-powered spells ? ACs to places are easy to come by and limited in utility, but AC to creatures/persons are harder to come by and much more powerful.

[MarioJPC]

I've thougt that a Rego Vim spell with a greater that Touch Range and a Duration could work with the mechanics of the Opening the Invisible Tunnel, but against the spell, the speels end, end the connection, and it be needed turn to the Range and cast another spell to grant the connection, much more usefull search a true Arcane Connection; but it is not an Arcane Connection, it's only a way to grant a way to send spells.