Items and Casting Requisites

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

I want to create a Lesser Enchanted Device that allows the user to cast Unseen Arm at will. The main purpose of the device is to allow the user to handle books (it's for my familiar).
Now, Unseen Arm is a ReTe 5 spell. To affect a book, my maga can use casting requisites - but what about the invested power? How do casting requisites work with invested powers? Must I invest a ReAn(He) version instead of a ReTe one?

While I'm at it, a few more questions:
How well can the familiar manipulate the items? Normally I would say it's up to the caster's Finesse roll; how does that work for an invested power? Does the user of the device makes the Finesse roll? And if so - can my familiar Practice finesse?
The spell is at Voice range. What is the range for the invested power? Does the user need to speak to set the range?

Thanks for any replies,
the confused,
Yair

2

I don't know. I'd argue so, yes.

Yes. That's how Covenants handles items with invested crafting spells.

The user's Voice range which, yes, requires it to make some kind of noise (not necessarily intelligible speech). Or the item can have a CrIm spell invested that takes care of setting the range with a hum, chime, roar or whatever else you want.

3

Pardon me if I'm missing the obvious, but wouldn't you want a ReTe(AnHe) if you were basing it on Unseen Arm?

To extend that line of thinking, could you create a ReTe(all forms) device that would allow your familiar to use the Unseen Arm device on everything?

I think finesse is the "by-the-book" answer. However, the Rego Terram guidelines do say

I would have to think about it, but it might not be unreasonable to allow that adding a magnitude to the level of the device would get you a base finesse score of 3 while using the device. I'm not sure you should be allowed to go much higher, but I don't think a minimum level of finesse (to prevent your familiar from, say, tearing pages) is too powerful.

Nathan

4

The reasom I am after ReAn(He) instead of ReTe(An,He,...) is to lower the amount of requisites and thus, hopefully, spell level needed. My goal is to allow my familiar to turn pages and handle books, not to allow it to manipulate anything else. I am looking for the lowest level effect that would allow me to do that. So the effect is more "inspired" by Unseen Arm than a variant of it.
Of course, a ReTe(An,He) spell would be amazingly useful, but would be level 15 (2 magnitudes above Unseen Arm). Adding, say, Co to the mix would increase the level even further. My current ReX lab total is 35, so I'm looking to create lower level effects if possible.

And thanks for the Voice rule. Very right, I missed that.

Good idea. Thanks.

5

Power Over Books, an invested power
While wearing the magic device, the user can command an item made of animal and/or plant products (such as a book), manipulating it according to his will. He must speak directions to it and concentrate to manipulate it. The manipulation is limited to that of a human hand, but is typically clumsy (depending on the user's Finesse).
ReAn(He) 5 (B 1, +2 Voice, +1 Concentration, +1 requisite), +10 unlimited frequency. [ReAn(He) 15]

Compare with:

Power Over All Things Inanimate, an invested power
While wearing the magic device, the user can command an item made of animal and/or plant and/or mineral (or metal) products (such as a book, pebble, or bone), manipulating it according to his will. He must speak directions to it and concentrate to manipulate it. The manipulation is limited to that of a human hand, but is typically clumsy (depending on the user's Finesse).
ReTe(An,He) 15 (B 2, +2 Voice, +1 Concentration, +2 requisites), +10 unlimited frequency. [ReTe(An,He) 25]

Clearly, the ReAn(He) version is cheaper. Indeed, the ReAn(He,Te) version is superior, but in truth should be illegal. I suppose I should check the ReHe guidelines to see what's more expensive (and hence legal) - ReHe(An) or ReAn(He).

Edit: The proper effect seems to be

The Legal Unseen Arm
ReHe(An,Te) 20
(B 3, +2 Voice, +1 Concentration, +2 requisites)
for a whooping level 30 effect (including the +10 unlimited frequency).

The Herbam guidelines are the most difficult, so set the base level and Arts, with the others serving as normal requisites (none of that "casting requisite" backhanded manueaver for us!).

6

There are requisites and then there are requisites. I believe we differ as to the type of requisite that we're discussing. I'd assumed that requisites for this item would be +0 "necessary for spell's effect" requisites rather than +1 "enhances spell's effect" requisites.

From the spell description, Unseen Arm is very flexible and can be used to manipulate any small, inanimate object. When cast "on the fly" on a non-Terram object (a bone, a stick, etc.), my understanding is that any necessary casting requisites are +0 and ad hoc. That is, you don't need to research separate ReTe(An), ReTe(He), etc. versions of Unseen Arm; once you know the base ReTe 5 spell, you can use it on anything.

(In general, Terram seems to need less in the way of requisites than any other form. Consider that Hermes Portal can transmit anything and requires no requisites.)

The question, to my mind, is whether one can build that flexibility into an enchanted item. In most cases, I would say no; flexibility adds quite a bit to the power level of an object. In this case, however, the enchanted item isn't that powerful and contributes far more "flavor" than it does combat power or economic potential, so I am inclined to be generous. I might simply tack on an extra magnitude for flexibility and then allow any extra requisites to be added at +0.

In the end, you'd have something like:

Unseen Arm of the Familiar, an invested power
While wearing the magic device, the user can slowly move any small, inanimate item (a mug, a page of a book, a stick, a few drops of water, etc.). This item can be used to move things at a distance, but cannot be used to pull something from a person's hand or move a held object. The user must speak directions to it and concentrate to manipulate it. The manipulation is limited to that of a human hand, but is typically clumsy (depending on the user's Finesse).
ReTe(all forms) 20 (Base 2, +2 Voice, +1 Concentration, +1 flexibility, +0 requisites, +10 unlimited frequency)

I can see why someone might feel that this item is too flexible, though, so YMMV. Nonetheless, I think the spell Unseen Arm supports some generosity and (in my highly subjective opinion) this is the sort of thing a magus ought to be able to do without an overwhelming level of difficulty.

Nathan

7

My SG, thinking along your lines of thought Nathan, ruled that I can simply pile up requisites on top of Unseen Arm without even the +1 flexibility you demanded. I ain't about to argue with his ruling, so that settles the issue for that saga.

I can see the argument both ways. Personally I find that the spell does something without the requisite (moves stuff around) but does segnificantly less (does not move this thing around), so it falls under the "+1 magnitude" category. But as an SG I think I would second my peer's ruling - it might not be strictly by the rules, but in this case I think generosity is in order.

As I noted above, interpreting the requisites as "+1" means also that the base effect needs to be determined by the highest Art combination, which in this case is ReHe. So that's another point in the "+0" interpretation's favor, I guess.

Yair