Jinn FAQ (the Cradle and the Crescent - Chapter 4)

I've created this thread to specifically answers posts about Chapter 4: the Jinn of the Cradle and the Crescent (tCatC) as the original thread here: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/the-cradle-the-crescent/5639/1 is becoming quite long and confusing to follow.

Given time, I'll try and collate posts from there and any additional relevant threads. If I don't seem to be answering the forum after about 2 weeks try emailing me.

I will attempt to answer questions about sahir which directly relate to jinn but for specific questions about sahir or the Solomonic Arts I'll defer to Erik (Dahl) who wrote the relevant Order of Suleiman section.

Cheers,

Lachie

FAQ about the Jinn

Jinn vs jinni vs jinniyeh?
It gets very confusing, but the various spellings of this Arabic word denote gender and number. Incorrect transliterations into English don't help either.
We generally use jinni when referring to a single individual as it is shorter and more recognisable. I'm not a scholar of the Arabic language.

Jinn - refers to the plural form and as a proper noun refers to the group of spirits as a whole. Think "boys" or "hedgehogs" or whatever.
jinni - is singular for a male spirit or the general adjective eg "a jinni nomad". Think "boy" or "hedgehog" or whatever.
jinniyya - is singular for a female spirit, with the plural usually the same as for males ie. jinn. Think "girl".

Can a sahir learn the Solomonic Arts from studying jinn?
As derived from the HoH:S rules on (elemental) Magic jinn, learning from jinn is akin to studying from vis or significatos etc - the jinni is not teaching the character, the character is learning from observing and questioning the jinn - some jinn may find this distasteful and/or consider this beneath them and seek revenge on the summoner. The rules presented however do not require the jinni being studied to have scores in the elemental Forms, Imaginem, Vim or even their associated (Realm) Lore. Similarly most jinni do not have a knowledge of Sihr but as Sihr is all about jinn, studying the behaviour and interacting with jinn grants experience towards learning Sihr.

At the Troupe's discretion, Storyguides may also allow a sahir to use this process to gain XP in the Solomonic Arts, as suggested by Erik Dahl (the author of the Order of Suleiman chapter).

For actual instruction, a Faerie jinni with the Faerie Instructor Virtue (to allow the jinni to have Abilities instead of Pretenses) may be the most appropriate and may allow teaching non elemental Arts, including Sihr and the Solomonic Arts, depending on what Arts the jinni possesses. Some jinni, particularly those styled on wizards, the more magical individuals of the Ghul tribe or those jinni who are transformed sahir may know Sihr, Summoning etc and be able to teach these Abilities/Arts to sahir and even Hermetic magi with the appropriate Virtues etc.

Any good sources to recommend for making/statting up Jinn? Or another source for finding examples of Jinn?

The best way to create jinn IMO is to use the existing jinn in tCatC and in the "City of Brass" section of ToP as templates.

Just modify the powers etc accordingly eg. change from elemental fire them to elemental water theme, shift the Focus powers. I intentionally tried to present a variety of jinn at different Might levels and aligned to different Realms so that there was room for this to occur.

Marko presented the idea of having a base template 'afrit in "The City of Brass" that you then modified by adding extra powers and/or changing around Characteristics and Abilities as required to customise the individual (detailed on pages 41-47). He also uses a trick of using the Reduced Abilities Magic Inferiority for Winter Magic characters to allow expanded Magic Qualities for a given Might level (a technique first employed in RoP:M for the example elder dragon). This is less of an issue for Faerie characters (whose Virtues & Flaws can be unbalanced unless used as PCs) or for Infernal jinn who don't really have a detailed creation system.

Hope this helps!

Lachie

This is helpful, I'll take a look at that book. :slight_smile:

Let me know if that answers your question.

As to inspiration and ideas, that's a different question...

Here's something that I still haven't quite nailed down in my head:

What separates a Jinn from a Non-Jinn? What exactly makes them live only in Islamic vs Christian lands?

From this old thread, https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/genii-loci/1907/1 I found:

To expand on my question a bit more, lets use a historical example:

In 1071, the Byzantines lose at Manzikert big time. In the next few decades, the lose control of the Anatolian plateau. In the next few centuries, the Seljeks and Ottomans control all of what is now Turkey and convert people to Islam.

At what point do the spirits of the land become Jinn?

Or do new Jinn move in and displace older spirits?

I realize this is completely out of the scope of TC&TC, and that any answer is your own and doesn't speak for the rest of the line. The reason I ask, is my PCs are currently exploring the middle east in the 800s - and are very impressed by the organization of Caliphate and the tolerant attitudes of Islam. I pointed out that they could change history and help a Muslim conquest of Europe. They're thinking it over. :wink:

What magic should be used to target Jinn, in general?

I have a PC that wants to invent a Hermetic spell that, assuming in Penetrates, will hold them in place. Since they are made from Smoke and Fire, would a ReAu or ReIg be appropriate?

I think it's more appropriate to affect the Form that the Jinni is related, as the guidelines in TMRE on page 28 suggest.

FWIW, you can always use Mentem to compel a Jinni, too, as they do have minds.

Vim as they are spirits, regardless of Realm alignment. As pointed out below as they have minds, Mentem may also be effective. Otherwise for Magic jinn (usually Pagan) associated with elemental forms, magic directed at that specific Form is effective.

"Made of smoke and fire" is interpreted metaphorically in ArM5 as indicating they are spiritual beings unlike in ArM4 (Blood & Sand) where Jinn are aligned to Ignem. Neither ReAu or ReIg is appropriate for the majority of jinn therefore unless the jinni in question is aligned to the Forms of Auram and Ignem respectively.

Hope this helps, apologies for the delay!

It's a good question. The boundary between Jinn and other spirits does seem rather nebulous.

Magic Jinn are generally a form of genii loci, which come with the land and shouldn't really change as nations and peoples come and go. I think I would probably treat all genii loci as Jinn where this matters in the rules, since I don't really see essential differences between ones in Muslim lands and others.

Faerie Jinn and other Faeries, on the other hand, would probably be associated with peoples rather than lands and would vanish and be replaced as populations move. Maybe an individual Faerie would gain or lose Jinn status, or vanish entirely.

Infernal Jinn tend to be fallen versions of the first two types. They and other infernal spirits might or might not move on and be replaced over time.

IMS I take the "Smoke & Fire" bit literally. All jinn can be affected by Vim, Mentem, or Ignem. Or an elemental Form that they might be aligned with.
But no one does that.
I even have a Jinni specific Ignem spell or two in the covenant library. Vim is still the more popular choice simply because such spells are good against all beings of the specified Realm.

Regarding genii loci, I would say the moment they start interacting with Islam. That's when they have to choose whether to accept it, reject it, oppose it or ignore it. That, to me, would be the defining point when they "turned" into Jinn. I would say it'd take some time after people converted in the area, as they probably won't interact with them frequently. Maybe a couple of decades or a generation (which is probably more or less the same at the time lol).

I would even say that they'll probably ignore Islam, turning into Magic Jinn, but that they might sometimes take a different option, changing their Realm alignment as they turn into Jinn. As far as I see, RAW doesn't provide any way for a supernatural being to change Realms, but it doesn't explicitly prohibit it, and there are plenty of hints here and there that could be interpreted as this happening now and then. So I guess having beings change Realms as they transform into a different thing would be a reasonable choice for a Saga. Quite an uncommon occurrence, but not impossible.