Julien ex Criamon

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Stealing the Future
21

The initiation to the Mystery Cult involves the following, and I can accept that a member of the Fraternity who initiates others has a really high Lore Ability score.
Mystagogue has:
+1 Presence
+7 Fraternity of Samos Lore
Script:
+1 bonus for knowing Artes Liberales and Philosophiae at 3 (you won't receive this bonus again for meeting the Ability requirements in the future, since it's a special bonus).
+3 spend a season learning at a Pythogorean school (no xp granted, this is the season of sacrifice).
+3 take a minor Ordeal for the Vow to follow the Sacred Precepts of Pythagoras

15 Total script and mystagogue bonus, and the Mystagogue knows the virtue.

I'll say that Theoreticus has a +1 bonus for creating the Numerologist's book and being able to do the spells (this is somewhat generous). The Journey is a Quest, which provides +3. So, we need to come up with 4 more points in an initiation script. You could, after demonstrating the ability to use the Numerologist's book sacrifice it that would be +3. So, you would still be 1 point short. I'm open to your ideas for what else might be in the script. Ordeals carry over, so an Ordeal used here could be useful later on, since the next script only appears to have a +3 bonus defined. So a +9 Ordeal (Major Flaw) would give you +8 for the next initiation...

Electus is going to have a +3 bonus for the Ordeal related to: you taking a lock of hair (a season and 1 pawn of vis to fix it) and giving it to the Cult along with your Nativity Horoscope that will provide an 8x multiplier for penetration against you, so you'll lose a couple of seasons of xp here, for certain. Continuing on the total from the last initiation, if you take the major ordeal at Theoreticus and this one is +11 script bonus (effective) leaving you +3 to carry forward for the next level Tertius...

22

Ok, I pushed him to age 31; I figure that 3 is a mystic number historically, and he is a numerologist, so it would make sense that he'd age 3 years between Initiations. At least, it makes sense to me for the character.

Anyhow, with the 3 years comes 120 more XP...or, more accurately, 110 XP plus the Initiation (which involves 1 season of time). So I lose 10 XP for the 1 season, which is no big deal. Except that MC doesn't take this into account automatically, so I had to fudge MC by creating a new Ability for the Initiation, and then drop 10 XP into it. It has a score of 0 as it's not a true Ability that can be used. But I have to do this in order to have the accounting correct.

And this is how I spent the XP for these 3 years, to include all the details on the Script as it exists in MC:

  • Initiation Script: Samos First Degree (Mathematicus)
    [list][*]Script Bonus 15
  • Cult: Mystic Fraternity of Samos
  • Ability: Mystic Fraternity of Samos Lore
  • Virtue: Hermetic Numerology
  • Flaw: Vow (Sacred Precepts of Pythagoras
  • Target Level 15
  • Seasons 1
    [/:m]
    [    ]Fraternity of Samos Initiation 0 (10)[/:m]
    [    ]Mystic Fraternity of Samos Lore 3 (30)[/:m]
    [    ]Magic Theory 4 (20)[/:m]
    [    ]Terram 5 (15)[/:m]
    [    ]Herbam 5 (15)[/:m]
    [    ]Rego 5 (15)[/:m]
    [    ]Scribe the Perfect Circle (ReTe4)[/:m]
    [    ]The Unseen Porter (ReTe10)[/:m]
    [    ]Animal 1 (1)[/*:m][/list:u]

I'll be back later to work on that second Initiation script!

23

So I've been thinking about the second initiation, and you (Jonathan) came up with some good stuff there for the script. However, I doubt that, for any portion of initiation, someone would willingly sacrifice their Numerologists book considering the amount of Vis it takes to open it (Lesser takes 8 pawns, Greater takes 16). Not to mention that the book is specifically attuned to a single person AND it can be further enchanted as a device and instilled with device effects. It's far too important to someone to willingly sacrifice.

One other thing I noticed when reading over the second initiation in the book was that a score of 4 in Artes Liberales (Geometry) is required. Now, I have the score, but my specialty is Mathematics. That specialty is required for the first initiation, so I'm a bit confused here. Do I have to start a brand new score in Artes Liberales, specializing in Geometry? And if so, would the two scores be added together to determine if I would get the greater book bonus of +8?

Now, about the script itself: If we are assuming a script bonus of 15, like the first one, I've got a few ideas to swap out the Great Sacrifice. They are, in no particular order:

  • Mystagogue Time. It is entirely possible that, in order to show proficiency in Hermetic Numerology, that the character would have to spend time either under the direction of a mystagogue (such as an apprentice would under a Magi) OR serve as a teaching mystagogue to help those who want to learn more about the Fraternity. I see this being no less than 1 season of time; this is +3. I do have Presence +2 and Samos Lore of 4 at this point.
  • You've already got Quest up there, but what about Travel? Could the two be incorporated together for a total of +6?
  • There's also Learn, which is +3. It could be required that the character actually have to learn something - some deep insight, or ability or spell or something - in order to continue on the path here.

I see all of these options as having to spend at least 1 season on, and if all of them were done in the same script it could be that we're talking about multiple seasons. Which makes sense, considering we are diving deeper into a mystery cult here. Thoughts?

24

Well, no, they wouldn't, but that's the point of a sacrifice. It's not a sacrifice if you didn't invest time and vis to make something.
If you can do it once (make a book), you can do it again, and it's not like sacrificing your talisman.

No, Artes Liberales (Geometry) means that you must have at least a score of 4 in Artes Liberales and your specialty must be Geometry. It's a fairly common (and unwritten HR in this saga) to allow changing specialties when you change an ability score.

No, you can't spend time on both Travel and Quest, as during development they are nearly the same thing.
I notice in your advancement prior to this initiation that you didn't include time to make your book, or did I miss that?

25

True. But if I can find some other way than sacrificing the Numerologist's book, I'll explore that option. But if this is the way it has to be, then it has to be. Not like the guy isn't earning XP or doesn't have the time to do so, right?

Makes sense. I'll just have to put some XP into Artes Liberales during the next 3-year cycle so I can get that to 5 and then change the specialty.

Again, makes sense. Just wanted to put the idea out there and see if it was feasible. If not, so be it.

It's not there. Creating the Numerologist's Book is not a requirement for the first level of Initiation. In fact, the creation of one is part of the second level of Initiation (Theoreticus). Page 128:

Because it's not required in the first degree, I didn't account for creating one. But it is required in the second degree, so I'll have to account for that then. This then means that we should be sitting at the following (so far) for the second degree:

Creating Numerologists Book (Time Requirement +1; 1 Season)
Great Sacrifice (+3)
Quest (+3; Probably also going to require 1 Season)
Grant Virtue (+0; Hermetic Geometry)

So far that's +7, and we need to get to +15 (unless I'm understanding things incorrectly here). So what should we add? We've already got 2 seasons worth of time accounted for; could we possibly add Learn +3 into this to show my need to get the specialty for Geometry? Which would take yet another Season, but if we do this then the ability is learned without spending XP. This would push us to +10, which is getting closer.

Thoughts?

26

Right, they can be pretty much as old as they need to be. And aging rolls will get the +2 bonus for living in a Summer covenant or good living conditions.

Well, I was a bit unclear, you need an effective score in Artes Liberales of 5 as it pertains to Geometry.

Got the timing of things out of order, never mind.

You are forgetting the +8 from the Mystagogue.

27

Yeah, I forgot about the Mystagogue's +8. That puts us at +15, which is what I need.

I will work out the script tonight and post up the advancement to the second degree!

28

So 3 more years, 120 more XP. And here are the changes made to the character to account for it all!

  • Artes Liberales 5 (25; Specialty changed to Geometry)
  • Fraternity of Samos Initiation (30; needed for accounting for 3 seasons of initiation)
  • Created a Numerologists Book (0; takes 1 of the 3 seasons mentioned above)
  • The Significance of the One (InCo5)
    [list][*]Invented Rote; takes 1 season to invent and is a requirement of the initiation
  • Related to The Significance of the Group. Divines the number of a particular object a singular person is carrying. Only 1 item may be asked about per casting, and at least one of those items must be visible on the person. An example would be "How many feathers does that man have in his cap".
  • Casting Total *25
  • R Voice, D Mom, T Ind
  • Base 3, +2 Voice
  • Rote Casting Bonuses 9
    [/:m]
    [    ]Initiation Script: Samos Second Degree (Theoreticus)
  • Script Bonus 15
  • Cult: Mystic Fraternity of Samos
  • Virtue: Hermetic Geometry
  • Sacrifice: Numerologists Book
  • Target Level: 15
  • Seasons: 3
    [/:m]
    [    ]Magic Theory 5 (25)[/:m]
    [    ]Perfection of the Well-Designed Chamber (Re(Cr) Te(He) 20)[/:m]
    [    ]Rego 7 (13)[/:m]
    [    ]Animal 2 (2)[/*:m][/list:u]

That was a lot more work than I anticipated. I had to create the book, then sacrifice it. I had to invent a new Rote, and I hope I did that right AND that it's acceptable. I will update my character in the first post, then we need to lay out the groundwork for the next degree of initiation.

And on a similar note, I am really digging this guy. I am just loving all the work and scripts and figuring stuff out and getting him to where he needs to be in order to be what I envision him to be. This is great stuff, and I thank you for all your help in getting this done!

29

I've been going through the book to see about the third degree of initiation, and we've got some work to do.

For starters, I'm going to end up with another Mystery Virtue: Planetary Magic. Which is fine, until you realize that I'm already at 12 Virtues and only 11 Flaws, and this will put me at 13 Virtues. So we need to balance these out somehow. I am loathe to drop any Virtues I currently have, especially considering I took them specifically for the purpose of getting this far and into teaching Numerology. But, we'll figure this out.

Secondly, the book states that giving up the lock of hair and the penetration thing is an Ordeal, and the effects are similar to the following Flaws: Flawed Parma Magica, Limited Magic Resistance. Which I'm fine with, considering the bonus to Penetration is only given to someone who is casting a spell at Julien while they are using the lock of hair, the nativity horoscope, and his birth name and signature. So I'm good with that, and it gives me an idea on the balancing of the Virtues and Flaws.

Planetary Magic is a Minor Virtue, which, as I pointed out above, puts me at 13 Virtues and only 11 Flaws. Flawed Parma Magica and Limited Magic Resistance are both Minor Flaws. I don't know if it's possible to have both of these Flaws considering they seem to overlap, but I have to ask if it's possible.

So far, the only things I can see for this script are:

Grant Virtue +3
Medium Ordeal +6

What would the script bonus be on this? I hope I've been doing things right, and want to verify what you are thinking on this one. Also, anything else that should be in this script?

I should point out that this next 3 year cycle will be my last before I have to start making Aging rolls. Do you want to see the dice here from IC, or can we let MC do it for us?

30

Virtues and flaws do not have to balance after gauntlet if you undergo initiations. I'm being a tad generous here with the Quests or travel requirements because there is little sacrifice involved (10xp isn't a lot). But something related to that quest or travel may come back from the past to be resolved.

See above, you don't have to balance the flaws, and giving up the lock and all that information is the Ordeal and sufficient.

There isn't a Grant Virtue +3 bonus to the script. And it is a Minor Ordeal, meaning you need to acquire more points for the script; 8+3=11, leaving 4 remaining.

See above for the script bonus. MC can do it, and you can send me the file once the character is completely finished.

31

That Grant Virtue should have stated +0, not +3; derp on me.

I'll work on this and see what the scenario is and give you an update as to where we sit.

32

Still working out the details of the Electus script. I don't think that the bonus is going to be high enough with what I've listed previously. Medium Ordeal +6 for sure, but I think that the book is calling for a season of sacrifice, so that would be Time +1 (or any number thereof to get to one season). I think if I make it Time +3 I've got enough; Jonathan, can you validate that for me please?

Also, what Flaw should we inflict for the Medium Ordeal? MC wants a Flaw, and I'd like to pick one that's appropriate. Flawed Parma or Limited Resistance are good choices, but they both want me to specify an explicit Art even though the book states that it's applicable only when someone is using the hair and horoscope and stuff. Little help on this one please?

33

Ok, I can be convinced that it is a medium ordeal; you will have to spend a season fixing the AC for the lock of hair, so you lose 10 xp from that endeavor. Whatever flaw you want to inflict is fine, just delete it, since the Ordeal in this instance isn't actually inflicting a real flaw, merely a "flaw" with respect to the rest of the cult being able to easily cast spells upon you should you betray it. You don't actually gain Flawed Parma or Limited MR.

Time is always +1. Questing is +3, and each quest that you complete prior to starting play will count as a story flaw of sorts and having something that will need to be resolved. It's helpful if you can describe each quest you undertake if you choose Quest. We can discuss particulars, if you'd like.

So, right now you have a +6 Medium Ordeal ,+1 Time which is sufficient with the Mystagogue.

34

I can nudge you along your development, don't let my downtime pause Julien's development.

35

I am working on the third degree script; I've just been (like you) busy with work the last few days. I also don't post much on the weekends, so it seems like I haven't done anything with him in a while.

I'm hoping to have the script finished and the character updated tonight. Although, I do have a question that hasn't been answered yet: When it comes to Aging rolls, do you want the rolls done in IC, or is having MC do it ok? I ask because I've got the next 3 year cycle for Electus, at which point Julien will be 34 years old. During the 3 year cycle after that, he'll need to make 2 Aging roll - 36 and 37.

36

I need an answer on the aging rolls piece of this before I can continue please.

Also, as a test, I went through the script to see what would happen. Interestingly enough, it wants to remove one of my existing minor flaws, and replace it with a major flaw. This is in addition to the requirements regarding the LMR/FPM from the charts and such. Which I now have to give some thought to. And when this happens....Virtues and Flaws balance. Which is AWESOME.

I have to figure out which flaw to replace, and which one to pick up. Ooooh, the choices!

37

Um, I answered it earlier...

The script doesn't require what MC is trying to do.

38

No, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if you want MC to do the aging rolls for us, or if you want us to use IC and link the dice roll back here.

39

MC is fine. You can send me the file when he is done. I swear I answered this one, too.

40

You know, because I am new at this, and I need to learn, I am going to do the Aging rolls on my own and link them back here from IC. It's the only way I can think of that will make sure everything is done right. Or wrong, and you'll be able to tell me if I have to do anything about it.

Anyhow, advancing 1 year to age 35 and implementing the script for Electus, and the following gets changed on the character (40 XP for the 1 year advance):

  • Initiation Script, Fraternity of Samos 3rd Degree (Electus)
    [list][*]Medium Ordeal +6, replaces Minor Flaw Obese with Major Flaw Blatant Gift (reasoning: although he's crippled, he has to work on having a sound body; this makes him more fit, but in doing so he has pushed his magic to limits he didn't have before, resulting in his Gift becoming more obvious)
  • Time +1 (1 season)
  • Granted Virtue +0 (Planetary Magic)
  • Target Level 15
  • Script Bonus +7
    [/:m]
    [    ]Fraternity of Samos Initiation (10 XP)[/:m]
    [    ]Numbering the Flock (InAn20; +17)[/*:m][/list:u]

This leaves me with 10 XP from this year with which to do something with. But I want to go through and do Aging rolls for each of the next 2 years individually so that any effects from them are taken into account when spending XP (such as any ill effects to Intelligence, or a potential Crisis).

Now, the way I understand this, I have to make one roll every year after the age of 35. Or, technically, every year in Winter, starting with the Winter after I turn 35. I'm just going to make this easy and do 2 rolls, one for the age of 36, and the next for the age of 37. The formula, per the book, is:

Stress die (no botch) + (age/10, rounded up) - Living Condition modifier - Longevity Ritual modifier

Now, I'm not sure what the "no botch" thing here means. Does that mean a 0 is a 0? Does it also mean that a 1 doesn't explode? Either way, the total modifiers for the roll are 4 - 2 (35 / 10 rounded up is 4, and living condition is 2), for a total modifier of 2. So, here goes with the first stress die roll.

1 + 2 is 3. Per the book, Apparent Age increases by 1 year. So he looks 37?

And now for the die roll for turning 37.

7 + 2 is 9. Per the book, Apparent Age increases by 1 year. So now he looks 39? So he looks older than he really is?

Anyhow, with 2 more years of XP to go through, his total XP to spend at this time is now 90 (40 + 40 + 10 left over from turning 35). And he spent it thusly:

  • The Perfected Structure (CrTe20; +13)
  • Craft the Mechanism (Cr(In)Te20; +21)
  • Astrology 3 (Chart Generation) (30)
  • Rego 9 (17)
  • Perdo 2 (3)

Assuming I got all this right, we can start working on the 4th Degree for Samos. I read up on the book on this, and this is the first degree of the Inner Circle. Which carries the following requirements:

  1. Teaching score of at least 2.
  2. Wearing of Black or White Robes.
  3. No eating meat or green beans.
  4. Sacrifice of 15 seasons to train new apprentices.

That last one is a killer. That's almost 4 entire years for this one degree, during which I gain ZERO XP. Or, well, I would gain 10 XP for the one season not sacrificed for this. It confers a +6 bonus to the script, which is nice. But wow, that's a killer. But, it is doable. My only question: Do I mark this as Sacrifice, or as Time? And, if neither of these is +6 on their own, should I take these multiple times to show that I am giving up the seasons? And is anyone going to create a character who is a direct apprentice of Julien? Or will we just note that at least one Magi out there in the wide world exists?

Either way, I'll update the first post of this thread with the applicable information and await your answers to the above!