Kaltheus ex Tytalus and ex Jerbiton

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Stealing the Future
7

As I see the character, 10 years out he only has so many years of fertility left. No one's been solidly in favor of LRs that don't create fertility existing or being available in this saga. They do exist in this saga, but they only work for the magus who invented it and his descendants. After he went that far, he stopped and focused on other things. Someone else will need to take on the remaining part of that task.

So, he could have a very active reproductive life during the 10 years since getting married and starting his LR, if he starts one. You can have as many Gifted Children as you want (this is within reason, something like 10+ is not reasonable). But I really want to avoid a PC with several of their own children at the school, so by the time he's teaching a the school, they either need to have been apprenticed by your character, or off with another character your PC found suitable.

I'll work with whatever sensible story reason we need to, but I'm just not going to allow a PC to have children at the school for the first class.

8

So to clarify,

a.) Kaltheus can arrive at the school with apprentices half trained, OR

b.) gifted children not at all trained OR

c.) he has already completed & gauntleted all of his gifted children beforehand OR

d.) given them away to other magi for their training?

9

If any of his children are partway through their apprenticeship, they won't be apprentices of the school. He will have to teach them himself during his free time. This is certainly a possibility. He does gain all of the benefits of being at the school, he will know how to teach the Arts to more than one apprentice at a time, and he could even avail himself of the resources of the school. He does not, however have any of the protections that the school does. Namely, his apprentices can be Bonisnatched. Further, he can be brought to Tribunal for failing to provide an apprentice one-on-one instruction. This may or may not be a Tremere plot to acquire his children for their own ends.

Obviously, working with the premise that if the school is successful, his grandchildren could someday attend and he could teach them is my preferred method for handling everything. The idea of a PC being closely related to a large plurality of the students attending the first few years of school should really dominate the story, and it's not something i'm personally keen on exploring, nor do I think it's entirely "fair" to the other players. Tell me how you think the RP possibilities of this play out, because I'm not seeing a lot of benefits to a PC having a close relationship to so many of the students. And then the other players should also express their opinion, because this really does change the character of the saga from bring your partially trained apprentice, to turn the school into your own family's personal training grounds.

10

I don't want PC unduly dominating the story and that is completely fair. Bonisatching - nice verb.

I think having all of his children being trained and grown up is more realistic and bypasses the issue. 5 gifted children means that he would have had to give at least one apprentice away. It would also be a motivation on learning this new technique, so that he could pass it on to his own descendants at a later date.

As well, if he does have some gifted grandchildren or great grand children come to the covenant as pupils- that seems less dominating than his own children. A grandfather to a pupil or two doesn't seem too much in my mind.

Question: If he devotes 15 years and teaches the last 4 children at once (say starts apprenticeships at 6,7,8,9) and teaches them all in one big time chunk... Can Kaltheus at least get exposure XP in Teach during that period?

11

If it'd make any story sense at all, my character has an apprentice that I'm planning to give a slightly early Gauntlet (2 or 3 years early) to get her out of the way just as the teaching load starts for the school. Perhaps it's your eldest? The Gauntlet for Trianoma-lineage Bonisagus involves taking a long trip to another Trianoma magus to show that they can manage on their own, which means the apprentice will be out of the picture for this Saga. Since both my apprentice and I just recently came from England (where Ancel was stationed for 20 years), she'll probably be on her way back there. Transylvania to England is a suitable Gauntlet distance in this case. The interesting question will be how that happened to come about.

12

Credit where credit is due, KevinSchutlz had a thread with Bonisnatching in the title.

I'm going to say no to the exposure XP. In short, if I allow it here, I don't have a reason for allowing it anywhere. And in a game where you can be as old as you want to be at the start of the saga, to have the scores that you desire, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Further, it's just not going to happen that he gets to be master to all of his children at one time. Lots of possibilities as to why this doesn't happen. The Titanoi Kaltheus honked off could acquire one of the children before his Arts were opened, getting Bonisnatched is almost certain, so 2 is probably a reasonable number, after those two events, people leave Kaltheus alone because he's been picked on enough.

13

Good points Jon.

Kaltheus being a Tytalus I'd say would have been proactive rather than reactive with his children.

How about this for a different scenario? - First kid gift, 2nd gift gifted - his reaction so far - "great!" 3rd kid gifted, 4th kid gifted - "oh snap I better do something before they all get poached/Bonisnatched!"

If you're ok with it, I'll do the first 5 are gifted children - the second 5 are not gifted.

I think he would have looked for suitable magi to take on the kids #3, #4, & #5, gifted of his children as Apprentices, then trained the first two. I think it would be reasonably astute for him to travel and find appropriate Bonisagus magi looking for an apprentice in the first place - makes Bonisnatching very unpalatable when one has been generous with his own children.

The reason for keeping the first two - they have the Gentle Gift, the latter 3 do not.

20 years out:

Year 11: Latin +25xp, Order of Hermes Lore +15xp - begins some travelling to other Tribunals, visiting magi in other covenants and gathering information.
Year 12: Order of Hermes Lore +20 XP Charm +15xp, Ignem+5xp
Year 13: Order of Hermes Lore +25xp, Folk Ken +15xp
Year 14: Order of Hermes Lore +30xp, Leadership 10xp.

The Order of Hermes Lore 6 represents his search far and wide for appropriate Mater/Pater for his children to give them a good Christian upbringing and also be a good parent for his other 3 gifted children. Kaltheus would most definitely make a point of 1 or 2 going to House Bonisagus and letting other Magi know about it after the transfer has been completed.

Now at this point, he has 70 BP:

7 BP will be spent on vis for a LR: for 33 pawns I think he can get a -17 bonus to aging rolls? (7+101+ 52 + 2*3)

The covenants chapter has BP cost of com+teach+highest ability desired, but Kaltheus would have this man on retainer for a few years and then relieve him from service. An aged Church Acolyte or Monk would be appropriate I think.

The cost would be (teach+com = 10) + highest other ability (5) = 15 BP for purchasing a specialist for the covenant. This tutor would be expected to at first give 1-2 tutoring for the older gifted children, and once they are finished, the remaining children. A church trained scribe with good knowledge can support themselves fairly well.

The tutor will have teach+com 10 + base of 6 = 16xp / season for the older two gifted children, and +13 for the ungifted children. Latin 5, AL 5, Profession Scribe 5, Church Lore 5, Dominion Lore 5, Theology 5.

In either case: In the first year, the children are taught two seasons worth over the course of a year: Latin 2, Artes Liberales 2

Year 15: Apprentices his first two Children, (Gift Opened) now aged 8 &7, tutor teaches them Latin 3, Church Lore 1, Dominion Lore 1, Theology 1.
Kaltheus: Magic Theory+20xp,

Year 16: Two Seasons Teaching Apprentices - (Magic Theory +21xp each), tutor teaches them Profession Scribe 2, Latin 3, 15xp.
Kaltheus: Creo +20xp. 3rd child sent away at age 7

Year 17: Two Seasons Teaching Apprentices - (Magic Theory +21xp each), tutor teaches them Latin 5.
Kaltheus: Creo +20 xp, 4th child sent away at age 7

Year 18: Two Seasons Teaching Apprentices - (Magic Theory +9 xp each, +12 something else) Tutor teaches them Profession Scribe 3.
Kaltheus: Ignem +20xp. 5th child sent away at age 7

Note: Will assume that both apprentices have an Int +1, Magic Theory 4 for a total bonus of 2*5=10.

Year 19: Two seasons teaching apprentices. Creo +15xp Ignem +5xp, : Tutor now begins teaching the non gifted children.
Year 20: Two seasons teaching apprentices. Creo +8xp, Ignem +10xp, Corpus 1xp, Mentem 1xp

In Total:

Abilities:

Area Lore: Thebes Tribunal (Geography) 1
Artes Liberales (Astronomy) 2
Athletics (Running) 1
Awareness (Alert) 1
Brawl (Dagger) 1
Charm (Peasants) 3**
Church Lore (History) 1
Civil and Canon Law (Roman) 1
Code of Hermes (Wizard's Marches) 2
Concentration (Spells) 2
Dominion Lore (Saints) 2
Folk Ken (Magi) 3**
Finess (Fast Casting) 2
Greek (Roman) 5**
Guile (Fast Talk) 2**
Infernal Lore (Curses) 1
Intrigue (Gossip) 2
Latin (Hermetic) 5
Leadership (Agents) 2
Magic Lore (Legends) 1
Magic Theory (Learning Spells) 4
Order of Hermes Lore (Personalities) 6
Parma Magica (Corpus) 1
Penetration (Mentem) 1
Philosophiae (Ritual Magic) 1
Stealth (Urban Areas) 2**
Survival (Forests) 1
Teach (Apprentices) 3
Theology (Heresy) 2
Titanoi Cult Lore (Self Initiation) 3*

Arts
Creo: 12
Intellego: 5
Muto: 5
Perdo: 5
Rego: 7,2
Animal: 5
Aquam: 5
Auram: 5
Corpus: 8
Herbam: 5
Ignem: 10
Imaginem: 5
Mentem: 8
Terram: 5
Vim: 5
Oh: And Aging rolls up to age 50:

invisiblecastle.com/roller/search/1401507/

Somewhere in the late 40s gets an apparent aging to age 36. (20+4 - 17 -1) = 6 (Assuming general overall living conditions are +1.)

14

This makes me think of what would make a suitable magus for a Tytalus looking to foster their children? Would they not all be other Tytali as they think the other Houses are not doing the correct things?

How soon does he not wish to play Tytalus games anymore? In otherwords, why is he still a Tytalus?

15

This spends all of the available vis, well all but 2 pawns on a LR for himself. What about his wife? How will his Gifted children feel about this?

16

Jon - good point. I edited the an earlier post, he married a woman of 18, a typical age for a girl to get married. Year 21 is the year she will need a LR.

Good question: I think as a True Tytalus - when one is losing or doesn't like the game - change the game instead.

17

Unless you give her stats (full character work up), she's an ordinary person, and her LR is for an ordinary person, thus less effective.
Also, on your LR, and on hers you can add your assistance to the lab, so it might bump the LR a magnitude or two, without any Vis cost.

18

Jon, are you implying the wife could be a magus too?! O.O my brain just 'sploded - way more write up than necessary. I think a grog template is probably plenty.

19

No, but stat her up and give her a supernatural virtue... She gets a better LR. I'd prefer anything other than Unaging for the virtue, unless you give har a supernatural flaw to go along with the Unaging. N

20

Ah ha - how about Strong Faerie Blood? :stuck_out_tongue:

21

But one plays a game. Being passive is not a game. I think this character would get a lot of grief from other Tytali. So much that he may become the center point of many games.

I'm still interested in the first point though. Would this character foster his children off to other Tytali?

22

Another interesting twist...after placing two of his children into other Houses, he is attempting to have his own children accepted into House Tytalus? Nominally, the master does set the gauntlet, but House Tytalus does have the tradition of the Eristic moot and using that as a means of adjusting the apprentice into the House, gradually giving the idea that the apprentice must challenge his own master in an Eristic moot. This suggests a gathering of other Tytalus, but why would they accept Kaltheus's apprentices?

23

Good food for thought guys - given his dark secret and clearly bad experiences with his own house that "scared him straight" he may have gone and joined House Jerbiton. It fits given the direction I want to take the character.

24

You OK with one of the Bonisagus later turning around and selling his apprentice to the Tytalus who inducted Kaltheus into the Titanoi? It was an offer he couldn't refuse... :smiley:

25

Just as a background note, you'd have to work hard to get a Jerbiton to sponsor you into the House. While Kaltheus does have Gentle Gift, and two Gentle Gifted children/apprentices, any request from a Tytatlus does have the House's legacy for deceit to overcome. :slight_smile:

26

This is kind of where I was leading to. If he is disillusioned with Tytalus then I would guess he would leave as soon as he learns his first child is Gifted so you might want to build it into his growth.