Killing Vermin/Insects

What guideline would you use to kill vermin? Mostly lice and worms (so smaller that Size -10), if that makes a difference.

The PeAn guidelines don't seem to make any distinction.

Same as ball of abysmal flame?

Oh, you wanted PeAn :slight_smile:
I'd go for PeAn5 inflict a light wound, thinking that around size -10 there is no light wound, only squashed.

Yep, I was thinking PeAn. I don't think Base 30 (Kill an animal) should be required. And the tables about wound levels only go as low as "Size -4 or lower".

And the stats for mice (RoP:M p.80) still list the wound levels as "Wound Penalties: –1 (1), –3 (2), –5 (3), Incapacitated (4)" even though it is Size -10. :frowning:

Right, sorry, I was thinking of animals even smaller than mice. I can imagine a mouse feeling a difference between a light and a heavy wound.

TBH, I think that one has to go by RAW and use the base 30 to kill in this case.

I suppose you won't like it if I tell you to invent a new guideline with a minor breakthrough? :joy:

Killing with Perdo Animal is hard, unfortunately. You can, however, effectively ward against vermin using Rego. You would get easier results with other arts. Auram can be an effective fumigator, most likely. Base 1 Muto Auram is what I would use, frankly (poisonous gas).

I have a Perdo specialist with Deficient Creo, so I am trying to be creative.

Fumigation would work on lice but not worms.

Closest idea I've found so far would be MuAn Base 5 to "Change an animal in a minor way so that it is no longer natural" to temporarily make it poisonous to vermin (with a Perdo requisite). But it's really a roundabout way of doing something that should be much easier through direct Perdo!

Most insects would be killed with the PeAn base 5 to inflict a Light Wound.

For lice, I would say that light wound kills, but not for mice.

You would think so, bit there is nothing in the books to support that. Mice (Size -10) have the same wound treshold and levels as a Size -4 animal.

In fact, the mice listed in RoP:M have a Soak that is higher than that of the Birds of Nephelococcygia (Size -4) with the same wound levels.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. Baseline 4 for MuAu to inflict Light wound, and increases for each wound category.
But considering that it is well-known that smoke can get rid of bugs, a understanding ST might let you go away with a base CrAu 3 (noxious stench = strong smoke). Ind with +1 size for large area, D: Conc: +1, Touch +1, so CrAu10: Fumigation of the Room, create a large cloud of smoke. I checked in HM, chapter Burning city, no need for Ignem requisit to handle smoke.

I propose an alternative PeAu 4 (destroy still air) with Conc. duration: suffocating the vermin, with Duration Ring, T Circle, also level 10, 15 if you go for Diam, Room (in case a mage does not want to maintain conc. and circle/ring is too inconvenient because of the location).

Have you looked at the general guideline? Why go into the tough guidelines doing wounds?
General: Transform air into a gas doing +level damage.

I'm thinking doing d10+1 is probably enough to kill any insect. If someone rules insect can soak too, +1 Diam ought to do the trick. And the base auram individual is 100 paces accross. Works well to clean a building, I would think.

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MuAu or MuAn? It does make sense that the Animàl form refers to wound levels directly, but creating a mundane cause for injury, by Auram or Ignem or whatever, we normally work in damage totals.

MuAu to turn air into something poisonous. It does not inflict damage, directly wounds. So it is not very effective against vermin.

Let me clarify, the goal would be to kill lice and worms afflicting an animal. So a poisonous gas and a lack of air would probably not be my first choice. :nauseated_face: :grin:

So the 'Creo Animal the host' is also out for earlier reasons. And you want to avoid the high-level Perdo kill spells. Have you considered Rego Animal to control and the vermin away?

For lice there's always shaving the animal and then a cleansing acidic scrub!

The 'shave and scrub' would be the mundane way of doing it. Where's the fun in that? :grin:

Just exploring one of many ways that a Perdo enchantment might provide a covenant with some improvement. Making its livestock healthier by quickly and easily eliminating parasites was one thought I had. Going through the Forms one by one thinking about it.

Just get the humans out of the buildings for 2 minutes, once a month. Is that really a problem?

I'd rather not kill the afflicted animal (sheep, cattle, etc.), just remove the vermin afflicting it. :wink:

Then my suggestion would be Rego. It's very effective at removing stuff and warding against stuff.

Look at RoP:F around p. 49 (no books, memory, but should be close). I think the table may be extended elsewhere, too, but that’s my go-to.

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