Lady of the swamp

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Paris, this is a spoiler. Please don't read.
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First: hi all!

Now: Our magi have run afoul of the faeries in the regio near the convenant. One of them, the white lady, is quite powerful, but Paris has managed a ward powerful enough to affect her (which took him quite a bit of effort).

The plan is that he can now enter the regio without fear of facing a faerie attack, using his leap of homecoming. (he has his AC and we ruled in our game that the spell can be used to move in or out of a regio)

Problem is that the swamp itself is the faerie, so he's trying to transport himself into her body, protected by a ward against her. My first impulse is to rule that the leap of homecoming won't function, but that seems kind of lame.

So any thoughts on forced entry into creatures your warded against?

2

Well, ... If you have a ward against mundane beasts on yourself I would rule you could still smack that wolf with your fist. However, you will not penetrate its fur with blank hands - and even if you try hard to poke out its eye you will not succeed. :open_mouth:
Thus, I would rule Paris can use LoHC. Once entered the swamp he will not sink into the swamp's surface as this is part of the faery itself.

Anybody from the Nebelwacht-saga do not read further - this might be a spoiler

Our troupe faces a similar problem. The swamp surounding our spring convent is inhabited by malicious faeries and the swamp itself is a powerful faery of its own which is in league with the Wode. This is probably the most powerful faery in all northern Mystic Europe. We managed to keep the faeries out with a powerful Aegis and Wizards Communion. (Though we will probably have no chance against the Wode..) But that did not stop the problems as the faeries attacked a red cap. Now the convent itself is charged with "molesting the fay" as Oculus septemtoralis seeks a way to get rid of this pesty convent near their borders...
So, do not molest the faeries too much or might have to respond at Tribunal....

3

Well you can be warded against the earth (dirt) for example and merely constrained from actually touching the ground so long as the ward is active. Thus, if you are willing to rule that he can in fact enter the regio (which although perhaps lame I think would be many SGs inclination), he should be forced to hover above the surface of the Swamp and not be allowed to touch anything rooted to it.

Aside from that without knowing the whole scenario (intended actions in the swamp, etc.) its rather difficult to offer suggestions.

4

Urgh.

Speaking just for myself, the whole "float above the substance" concept has never been satisfying to me, but, much like Democracy, I can't think of any better alternative.

However, if that's the ruling, then a ward against animals would not let a mage put their hand down a wolf's throat, either, or perhaps not even within the mouth. If the swamp is the faerie, then it could be argued that the swamp, as a whole, reacts to the ward, and not just "things" in the swamp. So, as soon as the ward is up, he can't interact with or penetrate the swamp in any way, shape of form, not even to enter it, any more than he could put his hand inside the wolf without technically touching it.

It's like being warded against a room - you can't even enter the room. To enter it and not be able to touch anything within it would be a different ward.

What if he's already there?... expelled, I'd imagine, or the ward would just fail, or, perhaps, he'd just be frozen in place, as the ward prevents any interaction. If you tried to ward yourself against the room you were sitting in, what would happen?

Now additionally, as a good SG, you don't want to give away too much, but you want to give the hints they need to solve the puzzle. If the mage can enter the swamp, but can't touch anything there, it will be clear that the swamp is "fae" - not necessarily "a" fae, but generally fae in nature. But if he can't even enter the swamp, and he knows he can approach other things that are fae, there is more information, an apparent paradox that might lead to the answer. (This is where you have to have players who are both 1) moderately intelligent, and 2) trusting that you aren't just screwing with them arbitrarily.)

If this requires changing history, and going back, then ~do~ it - better to apologize, and get it right, than be stuck with an unsatisfying patchwork of bad interpretations from here out.

Good luck.

5

Thanks for restating in long winded form what I tried to encapsulate concisely in my post above, cuchul :wink:.

I bet your mother thought you would grow up to be a lawyer :wink:. lol.

6

(What makes you think I'm not?

You'll get my bill for services in a few days.) 8)

7

I'm thinking about when he's going to put up the ward; before or after he does leap of homecoming.

Put it up before, and is he even able to touch the arcane connection?

If he can touch and teleport with the ward already on, it might just teleport him to the fae woman (assuming she has a person-like form) and not into the swamp that he thinks he is going to. Or perhaps it just takes him to the edge of the swamp, to the regio door (which could be in the 'mundane' world, or in a different regio), and he has to try to get inside from there (which if he has the ward on he might not be able to do).

8

Good point! (I got distracted just considering a ward cast once already inside the swamp, which is enough mental gymnastics.)

With an eye to future rulings, if a mage has an AC to a thing/place (different discussion), but Wards themself against that thing... what happens? Similarly if the mage is the one warded against. (Should it work the same, or differently, depending who's doing the warding?)

Is that mage even able to use the AC?

To say that the mage teleports right up to it can create some odd effects, if used intentionally. (Warding vs a place, and telelorting to a person in that place with an AC, to arrive unseen by that person, among others). And if you don't arrive to the AC, where ~do~ you arrive, what determines that? Certainly not any sense of what's "convenient" or safe - it should be completely, utterly random - and that could really hurt!

But I would think that, similar to the rule that a creature warded against can't break a "ring", the ward would prevent the AC from working at all! (Which would give more clues as to the true nature of the swamp.)

Otoh, if a SG allows this to work, but only "just up next to it", that's no diff for a creature/person, but oddly disassociated for a "place" - you have an AC to a place, but can't go there, so the AC takes you... someplace nearby. ish. Hrmmm...

9

Hi,

My perspective about these things tends away from the canonical, so take it with a grain of salt (also known to be efficacious against some fay!)

If the faerie and the swamp are one and the same, the mundane manifestation of the swamp corresponds to the faerie. It is possible to interact with this faerie in two different ways, each of which mirrors the other.

In the spiritual/magical/mystical realm, the faerie is a living entity and the magus has warded it out. The two cannot interact. This ought to correspond to physical interactions on the mundane level, where there is no faerie, only a swamp; the inability for the two to interact as magus and swamp ought to operate on the level of man and swamp, with apparently mundane events keeping the magus out of the swamp when he tries to enter through mundane means.

Anyway,

Ken

10

Well, a lot of problems would be solved if only circular ward were allowed. However, banishing personal wards would reduce the might of any individual magus severly, so I am not sure tthis would be a bad idea. You suddenly have to worry about mundane swords again.... (Ward against steel...)

11

I also think he will arrive next to the swamp. It doesn't matter when to use the ward. Appearing in the middle of the swamp would be like he would appear on somebody's head when using a teleport spell.

Ward means IMO he won't be muddy by this fairie but he can sink into it and even drown if it is deep enough.

12

If the ward is cast outside the swamp, he will be unable to enter it at any level: no mundane nor regio level.

If the ward is cast inside the swamp, he is likely to be expelled from the regio right away (the fae swamp was in a regio right?). Enraged fae as well.

If the swamp fae is NOT in a regio AND he casts the ward INSIDE the swamp, you can do whatever you want, but I would auto-teleport him to the border of the faerie/swamp and make the incantation of the faerie be extremely pissed off at the character.

Warding yourself against something ypou want to interact with is a BAD idea since warding prevents any physical interaction.

The best plan for him would be to ward himself and walk to the BORDER of the swamp,and ask for an audience just there. The fae can then modify the layout of the swamp so that he can walk up to the center of power of the swamp WITHOUT touching the swamp (the typical winding track across the swamp, without fae power or aura) or the fae can manifest right in front of him in the border of his domains. Or he can sent a lowly might 5 faerie to interact with the jerk on her behalf.

I specially like the last option :wink:

At least this is how I would do it. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Xavi