Library Discussion

OK, whatever.

Rego summa, L16 Q14 (30bp)
Lab text for Conjuring the Mystic Tower (7bp)
Lab text for L25 Wizard's Communion (5bp)
Lab text for Shrouded Glen (8bp)

Interesting choices. :slight_smile:

Scott

Second draft of the library. I've probably successfully got it to the point where it doesn't have enough of what anybody wants. Ability summae have suffered the most.

I've tried to mark the items contributed by individual magi by asterisks, although since I only started doing this half-way through, I may well have missed a few.

Art Summae - 53bp
*Principia Fabricata by Portia Verditii. Creo summa, level 9 quality 15. 0bp
*Rego summa, level 16 quality 14. 30bp
*Winged Creatures by unknown. Animal summa, level 15 quality 8. 23bp.

Art Tractatus - 316bp
The Creation of Unnatural Objects in the Absence of an Ideal Form, by Plinius Bonisagi. Creo Tractatus, Quality 11. 11bp.
Aging to Maturity, by Venetia Jerbitonis. Creo Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
Viewing the Threads of Magic, by Erastus Guernici. Intellego Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Magical Senses, by Arista Guernici. Intellego Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
*Insights into Insight. Intellego tractatus, quality 12. 12bp
Taking on the Shapes of the Skies, by Claricia Mercandi. Muto Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
Taking on the Shapes of the Forests, by Claricia Mercandi. Muto Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
The Permanence of Destruction, by Polycarpus Criamonis. Perdo Tractatus, Quality 9. 6bp.
Aging Past Maturity, by Venetia Jerbitonis. Perdo Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
Binding Spirits with the Art of Rego, by Perome Tytali. Rego Tractatus, Quality 11. 11bp.
Some Methods of Warding Against Common Assaults, by Eleftherois Guernici. Rego Tractatus, Quality 8. 8bp.
*Domination of the Magi . Rego tractatus, quality 10. 10bp
The Brotherhood of Wolves, by Ambrosius Tremendi. Animal Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
The Rapacity of Wolves, by Kronetis Tytali. Animal Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
*Sanguine Beasts, by Aquila Bjornaeris. Animal tractatus, quality 11. 11bp
*Choleric Beasts, by Aquila Bjornaeris. Animal tractatus, quality 11. 11bp
*Phlegmatic Beasts, by Aquila Bjornaeris. Animal tractatus, quality 11. 11bp
Coastal Winds, by Greywing Bjornaeris. Auram Tracatus, Quality 11. 11bp.
The Following Breeze, by Greywing Bjornaeris. Auram Tractatus, Quality 11. 11bp.
The Baltic Sea, by Greywing Bjornaeris. Aquam Tractatus, Quality 11. 11bp.
A Study on the Apple Tree, by Abelia Bonisagi. Herbam Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
Healing Herbs for Wounds, by Alexandra ex Miscellanea. Herbam Tractatus, Quality 8. 8bp.
*Herbal remedies, by Hildegard Jerbitonis. Tractatus on Herbam, quality 13. 13bp.
Cold and Chill: The School of Boreas, by Fulvius Flambonis. Ignem, Quality 8. 8bp.
The Species of Sight, by Clunia Jerbitonis. Imaginem Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
The Species of Sound, by Clunia Jerbitonis. Imaginem Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Manipulating the Estimation, by Clunia Jerbitonis. Mentem Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Manipulating the Common Sense, by Clunia Jerbitonis. Mentem Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
The Magical Properties of Emeralds, by Bertrando Verditii. Terram Tractatus, Quality 8. 8bp.
Vallation, by Adrastia Tremendi. Terram Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Analysing Vis, by Patricius Bonisagi. Vim Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
Fluid and Spun Vis, by Patricius Bonisagi. Vim Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.

Ability Summae - 53bp
*Magic Animals by Gyrgos the Familiar. Summa on Magic Lore, level 6, quality 8. Animal specialty is automatically acquired by the reader. 26bp.
The Shield of the Order, by Octavian Tremendi. Parma Magica Summa, Level 5, Quality 12. 27bp.

Ability Tractatus - 118bp
Books on the Miracles of St Martin, Divine Lore Tractatus, Quality 8. 8bp.
Recognising the Machinations of the Infernal, by Petronius Guernici. Infernal Lore Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
The Blindness of Gordiana, unknown author. Faerie Lore Tractatus Quality 9. Magic Lore Tractatus Quality 9. 18bp.
Priscum Fundamentum, by Portia Verditii. Magic Theory Tractatus, Quality 12. 0bp.
Forging the Bronze Cord, by Antonio Merinitae. Magic Theory Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Forging the Golden Cord, by Antonio Merinitae. Magic Theory Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Material and Shape Affinities for Transformation, by Halycon Bjornaeris. Magic Theory Tractatus, Quality 7. 7bp.
Consolations of Philosophy, by Boethius. Philosophae Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
De Accessione et Recessione Maris ("Tides and Tidal Movements", by Robert Grosseteste. Philosophae Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
Using Vilano's Sling, by Maria Flambonis. Finesse Tractatus, Quality 8. 8bp.
Overcoming the Might of Magical Creatures, by Arluin Flambonis. Penetration Tractatus, Quality 9. 9bp.
The Complexities of Concentration Upon Multiple Spells, by Metis Tytali. Concentration Tractatus, Quality 10. 10bp.
*Covenants of the Tribunal of Thebes by Poseidon of Guernicus. Tractatus on Order of Hermes Lore, quality 8. 8bp.
*The Travels of Igor Igorowich. Tractatus on Area Lore: Ukraine, quality 10. 10bp.

Spell Lab Texts - 76bp
The Wizard's Mount CrAn 35 7
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (MuAn 15) 3
Bind Wound (CrCo 10) 2
The Chirugeon's Healing Touch (CrCo 20) 4
Purification of the Festering Wound (CrCo 20) 4
Disguise of the New Visage (MuCo 15) 2
*Seven-League Stride (ReCo 30) 6
*Leap of Homecoming (ReCo 35) 7
Cloak of Black Feathers (MuCo(An) 30) 6
Pilum of Fire (CrIg 20) 4
Aura of Enobled Presence (MuIm 10) 2
Veil of Invisibility (PeIm 20) 4
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10) 2
Memory of the Distant Dream (CrMe 20) 4
Thoughts within Babble (InMe 25) 5
Trust of Childlike Faith (PeMe 10) 2
The Shrouded Glen (ReMe 40) 8bp
*Conjuring the Mystic Tower (CrTe 35) 7
*Wizard's Communion (MuVi 25) 5
Demon's Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 10) 2
Aegis of the Hearth (ReVi 20) 4
Maintaining the Demanding Spell (ReVi 20) 4
*Maintaining the Demanding Spell (ReVi 50) 10

Spell Mastery Texts - 27bp
The Well-Shrouded Glen, by Gauvain Merinitae. Mastery tractatus on the Shrounded Glen, quality 8. 8bp.
The Tower of Bonisagus, by Onesiphorus Bonisagi. Mastery tractatus on Conjuring the Mystic Tower, quality 8. 8bp.
Research Notes on the Aegis of the Hearth, by Notatus and others. Mastery tractatus on Aegis of the Hearth, quality 11. 11bp.

Enchanted Item Lab texts - 6 bp
Bed of Rapid Convalescence - CrCo 29 lesser enchanted device. Anyone resting in this bed receives a +15 bonus to recovery rolls, as long as they remain in the bed for the whole of the recovery period (but note no penetration). (MoH pg 23). (Base 10 +1 touch +2 sun +1 level 2 uses per day, +3 levels environmental trigger.) 6bp.

Enchanted Devices - 12bp
The Scribe's Work Anulled - 12bp
This simple elm wand was provided with the Parma Magica summa, for use in emergencies to prevent the great secret of the Order from falling into the hands of rival magicians. A second device, together with an arcane connection to the Parma book is held by quaesitor [name] in the Thebes tribunal.

To activate the item, one touches the point of the wand to an arcane connection to the book one wishes to destroy, and speaks the trigger "In ruina, salus". The book will be completely obliterated.

PeAn(He) 30 (Base: 4; Range: AC; Target: Group)

Casting Tablets - 12bp
Aegis of the Hearth (ReVi 30). Designed to be cast with 6 pawns of vim vis. 12bp.

I'll see what what everyone else says before I weigh in.

Scott

I don't think I should have any say in this since my character isn't present at the founding of the covenant, but that looks good to me anyway.

Would still like to see the <Q10 tractatus scrapped in favour of decent summae.

I'm not sure on the Summa vs. Tractatus issue, but couldn't we have a high-level Summa more cheaply than three Tractatus? I do see how the Tractatus will be more useful for more senior magi.

Why the heavy concentration on Animal?

Scott

Looks pretty good to me overall.

Chris

Can we at least scrap the Aegis casting tablet? Portia can cast an 8th magnitude Aegis.

My thoughts on this were that whilst Portia can cast an Aegis, she's the only person who can cast an Aegis, and it's the sort of spell you want to have a back-up plan for.

All but two of the Animal books (the two lower quality tractatus) were brought by Aetos, who I think has already read them all. I therefore stuck the other two tractatus in so he'd have something to read in his speciality.

This is basically the nub of it (that and the fact that when I made, admittedly low-level, summae earlier, several people said "no, no, give us tractatus"). Most of the magi will get little or no use out of a summa on their speciality, and will want tractatus on it. Add to this the fact that if we start buying multiple extra summae, we'll probably end up with some Arts with no books on them at all (we're already at only one book for a couple of Forms).

So for a back-up plan I will translate a lab text. Done.

As for tractacus over low-level summae, the argument had been that a Q15 tractatus was better in every way than a L5 Q15 summa. I would also prefer to see some high level summae replace a good chunk of these tractatus.

Step in the right direction, but not perfect - the main problem is if you die/ are seriously injured before you can do it (for example, exploring one of the previous magi's labs). [No, I don't OOC think this is very likely, but it's certainly IC quite possible, and not actually impossible from an OOC perspective either.]

(Also, we've already got an Aegis lab text).

Personally, I think having the lab text should be enough--if all else fails, in an emergency, we can hire someone to come in and cast it.

OK, fair enough.

It should be possible to trade for books at some point (I'm still not sure if we're going with the canonical "vis is almost worthless in Thebes" line--it doesn't really hold up under scrutiny, since even if vis were abundant in Thebes itself, it would be useful to trade to people in other tribunals).

Scott

That's just far more redundancy than practical, and I spent a season on learning a high level Aegis as a courtesy. If the consensus supports making that courtesy completely moot, I will re-allocate that season elsewhere.

Hardly completely moot - yours is higher level, and doesn't entail the risks that casting from a tablet does (although that said, I've just realised that Portia hasn't mastered her aegis anyway, so actually the risks are similar), and the lab text is only level 20 (i.e. a level at which pretty much anyone could learn it in a pinch). Learning from a lab text will also mean waiting between 1 and 3 seasons (depending on lab set-up) before we can cast it. Still, MTKnife is right that we could bring in a specialist, and with Tasia's Leap of Homecoming (and the fact that a decent aegis caster will probably also be able to cast LoH), we can probably bring one in on a reasonable timescale for only a moderate loss of face.

Since both you and MTKnife want to get rid of it, and no-one else has argued in favour of it (and we can bring in a specialist), I'll consider myself overruled.

Could I have other people weighing in on whether or not they want to swap tractatus for medium/high level summae, please (even if it's just "I don't care").

For if we decide to go for the summae, please could you also tell me:

  • What Arts you'd like
  • What Arts you're happy to completely lose/end up with minimal coverage in (as if I start switching away from tractatus to any significant degree, this is going to happen)

Bear in mind when deciding that summae are going to be level 15/16 at maximum, and probably more like 10 - 12. Arts which lots of people express an interest in will probably end up with better books.

I'm reluctant to switch, partly (from a selfish point of view) because I'm reluctant to throw out another load of work on the library, and partly because of the covenant's function - it's meant to be able to offer hospitality to a wide range of visiting magi. Missing large chunks of library doesn't fit well with that.

[As an aside, we'll have to work out at some point IC exactly what the terms are on which visiting magi are offered access to the library.]

I haven't read The Sundered Eagle yet, but I think I'd prefer to keep vis valuable. I note that 5th edition is slightly inconsistent on the availability of vis in the Theban tribunal anyway - HoH:MC pg 134 says under the Verditius Bind Magical Creature virtue that it was "developed in the Thebes tribunal, where vis is scare and magical animals plentiful".

How often are we going to get red-cap visits (and can we play out the first one)?

Given our function, probably more often than the average covenant--at least once a month.

Scott

It's in the charter: they have full access, though our bylaws could determine who gets priority when two magi need to use the same book.

Scott

Is it? The only references I can see to visitors' rights (aside from aegis tokens) are:

Now, there's a good case that access to the library comes under hospitality, and I certainly don't think that denying access is a good plan, but at the same time, there's a certain flexibility over details left.