Library policy discussion

I'm creating a new thread in order to stop overwhelming the Giza adventure with our library discussion. I'll respond to everything from that thread in this one. To begin, these are the current library rules. They're basically a more detailed explanation of what Mica told Fleur when she arrived.

Access to books: Any member magus of any rank may study from any book in the library, subject to the restrictions detailed below. Guest magi must receive permission from a journeyman or master and notify the Master Librarian before studying from a book.

Requesting books: All magi (including guests) must sign up for the use of a book no later than the season prior to its planned use. If two (or more) member magi wish to use the same book in the same season, priority order defaults to rank unless the magi reach a separate agreement. If the member magi are the same rank, the first magus submitting the request has priority unless the magi reach a separate agreement. Guests are an exception to the normal priority rules. If a guest magus has already reached an agreement to use a book in a given season, he or she receives priority over any member magus.

Removal of books: Masters and journeymen may remove books from the library for study, but may not remove them from the Andorra covenant grounds without the permission of the Master Librarian. Sa Dragonera is considered to be outside the covenant grounds. Pledges and guests of the covenant are not permitted to remove books from the library without the permission of the Master Librarian.

Liability: If a book is lost or damaged outside the covenant grounds, the magus who requested its removal is responsible for its repair or replacement. If a book is lost or damaged inside the covenant grounds (including the library itself), the Master Librarian will recommend an appropriate punishment to be verified or amended by the covenant council.

For those who are wondering, Vocis hasn't set rules regarding apprentices because of his conflict of interest. He's treating Mica as a guest for the purposes of library policy and informally limiting her opportunities to study from books.

As much as those rules make things more difficult for Lucas, they do strike me as being pretty fair.

Very fair. And even.
Travel ack and forth between Sa Dragonera and Arans is a non-issue, so we can study in the library all we want. We are all equally inhibited from taking a book as reading material on a trip, masters included.

What about non magi requesting access to books? Like books on philosophiae or area lore?
What about books in quasi-Hermetic topics like (say) penetration? Or Order of Hermes lore?

I like this. I like it even more if the journeymen develop their own shadow economy by selling their seasons to each other. :slight_smile:

Vocis is also less concerned about lab texts. The same rules will apply to them, but he'll be much more likely to allow them to be taken to the Balearics. The ones he's likely to refuse are probably beyond the capabilities of most of the journeymen anyway.

As for copying lab texts, that's going to come up once Vocis returns from Transylvania. In brief, he'll be able to get a fantastic exchange rate that's specifically for lab texts, not other types of book. We'll need someone to start copying our non-standard lab texts to support that trade.

Um, sucks to be you?
I dunno. I suppose that there should be some sort of policy to address the needs of specialist covenfolk whom we want to be educated and improved in their fields. Draganna is going to want access to the library.

If you're referring to On the Origin of Origins, I don't see that it's an improved copy of another book, but he'll probably allow it because we have another good Creo summa.

EDIT: Never mind, I see it now. He'll definitely allow this one.

This one's less likely for a couple reasons - it's our only Philosophiae summa and it's an incredibly great book. Though feel free to expand on this 'currying favor' notion. 8)

I am not such a fan of this. The Resolutions state

I suppose you could always employ Solomon's draconian elastic clause, but that is another inspiration for rebellion.

Absolutely. My initial thought is that each specialist (and companion) will be given a status equivalent to journeyman or pledge for library purposes, but other suggestions are welcome.

Below Journeymen, above guests. My suggestion anyway.

Couple things. One, I didn't see Trogdor's idea as restricting access to the library. They can study books any season they want, we're just letting them spend one season in Andorra each year to make it easier. Which leads into two - his proposal is actually reducing the restrictions on library access that Vocis's library policy is imposing. If giving them a season a year in Andorra for study is restricting access, forcing them to live outside the covenant and then not letting them take certain books to their sancta because they're outside the covenant is definitely restricting access.

For Winter of 1235, Lucas would like to formally request that he be allowed to borrow "The Magical Art of Magic" (Vim Summa: L10/Q16).

If that's not agreeable, he'd like to be allowed to borrow texts for "Wizard's Leap" (ReCo 15) and "Incantation of Paralyzation" (ReCo 20).

If that's not agreeable, he'd like to be allowed to borrow "Corpus Hermeticum" (Magic Theory Summa L8/Q12).

If that's not agreeable, he'd like to be allowed to borrow "A Delicate Matter" (Finesse Summa L8/Q14), and he'd like to request that a copy of "Corpus Hermeticum be made.

If that's not agreeable, then we'll talk. :slight_smile:

I agree.

It also seems fair to me. Vocis might balk briefly because it's not how other members did things when they joined, but those other members didn't have these restrictions. However...

...I'm not understanding why Lucas wants personal copies of books that are in the library. Can you clarify?

fightmaster is quite right. I was going under the assumption that certain books would not be allowed outside of the Andorra covenant's grounds. (I got the idea that taking the book to your Andorra lab was okay, but maybe I'm wrong). Given that fact, the only way to allow the journeymen in Sa Dragonera access to them would be to allow the journeymen to come to Andorra to read them. But if we want to keep Sa Dragonerra guarded, we don't want all the journeymen coming to Andorra all at once. So I was suggesting that we basically arrange it so that we spread out our visits to Andorra as much as possible to that Sa Dragonera had the best journeyman coverage possible.

As pointed out before, a journeyman could rely upon the Resolutions of Charter to come to the Andorra library every season to read those books. But then they'd run into the problem of the promise they made to help protect Sa Dragonera. I was figuring this would be a nice compromise.

Yes, for the same reason Fleur can take On the Origin of Origins - we already have a spare copy.

Ah, I wasn't clear.

I was figuring that the covenant would want to copy certain books to sell them or trade them. It occurred to me that if we copied the books a little earlier than we needed them for sale/trade, then the journeymen in Sa Dragonera could study them in the meanwhile. We would still be taking valuable books to the Balearics. But they would no longer be the sole copies that the library had, so the risk would be far less. Then, when the SD journeymen were finished studying it (or whenever a sale/trade was arranged), the copy would be retrieved and offered for sale/trade.

Granted, this would only work for non-Art books. But there are more than a few of those that Lucas was interested in.

Does that make more sense?

That would e an awful big coincidence. And they would not be residing at Arans to read. You would go there in the morning, spend the day at the library, then go back home to your covenant. Half day at most, and some may be nocturnal and study during a night shift.
Draconian, not liking the compromise. Seeds of discourse.

And it is a slippery slope to claim that Sa Dragonera is outside covenant grounds. Solomon agrues pretty much that it is part and parcel of the covenant. The Resolutions state the covenant owes members a sanctum & lab, Solomon (mister elastic) points out that they do not state where, and Sa Dragonera is legit covenant property.

It does not suck to be Arnau :slight_smile: In fact it is GREAT to be Arnau. I go against DRAGONS (DRAGONS! I tell you!) and I win hands down. I. JUST. ROCK.

:mrgreen: Ahem... :unamused: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Arnau is quite content with his library-related skill levels. Some improvements would be nice (penetration to 5, some improvements to OoH, maybe 1 point more in the realm lores...), but he does not desire to be a bookworm and could liove with his current scholarly levels easily.

What it seems to suck big time is to be a mundane scholar in Andorra. You have quite a few of those around. Can they only learn Athletics and Ride from now on? Really? Suddenly the apeal of Andorra is way lower than it used to be for the scholarly community. You have at least half a dozen people wanting to get entry there besides the magi. I would consider their needs if you want to build a scholarly community as you are doing with all that character creation. people does not get to Philosophiae 6 "just because" :slight_smile: