Continuing the discussion from Familiars:
Is there a consensus on the limit of familiars? The might and type of familiar?
No.
There isn't really any "limit" as such on familiars, other than what the rules provide.
High Might means you need a high Lab Total to be able to bind them.
To bind anything other than an animal as your familiar requires that you have some special virtue/flaw/knowledge that allows it.
And there is of course the fact that the would-be familiar must be befriended and trust you before you can bind it as a familiar, which means you can't just pick-and-choose what being you want as your familiar.
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The only limit on Might is what the Magi can find, convince to be his 'special friend', and is capable enough (high enough Lab Total/seasonal vis capacity/actual vis) to bind. So really the only limit on Might outside of the Magi's capabilities is how powerful a being the SG wants to make available and how much effort the group wants to put into stories dealing with it (because high Might should have stories).
A big part of a familiars power is if they are Grog or Companion power level (Magus level is not appropriate for a familiar). Per RoP:M, p.34 if the player of the Magus is also running their familiar it is typically Grog level and if a different player is running the familiar it is typically Companion level.
What do you mean by 'type'?
True Form (Animal, Human, Spirit, Thing)? Without some specific Virtue, it must be Animal.
Realm? Without some specific Virtue, it must be of the Magic Realm.
Species? Really no limit here.
The idea of a level 50 might(or more) familiar seems to be a bit extreme. Is this something you see in games?
Ran into a situation where one player found a might ten creature and another found a might 25.
It’s causing some issues in the group.
What is “grog level”? In terms of might
See RoP:M, p.34. There is a table that shows you might based on the overall power level of your saga.
For Grog it is starting in the 0~10 range. They also are built as a Grog so only have 3 virtues/flaws. For Companion the range is 5~25. For Magus the range is 10~50.
So someone having a Might 10 (that they run themselves) and another having a Might 25 (that other PC runs) is fine. But if they both run the familiars themselves, then you might consider correcting.
EDIT: Note that the table is a suggestion for game balance, not hard rules. So if you really want to have players with crazy high Might familiars go for it. You will just have to balance how your players feel about it if some "get the short end of the stick" (lower might familiar).
The highest Might of a familiar shown in the published books is 30. (The basilisk that Philippus Niger has as a familiar.) In-universe that is considered pretty awesome.
Might 50 beings are highly unlikely to agree to become familiars, so it is not something normally seen in games. Doesn't mean it can't happen if the troupe things is it is a good idea.
Generally speaking, high Might, and bigger size means your Magus would need a high Lab Total, and higher MT to afford the Vis to bind the Familiar in the first place. Those who want a Familiar ASAP usually settle for low Might, and smaller size, so they can bind them faster, which also means they generally have more time to teach them MT, or use them in the Lab, and have them accrue exposure xp, and so get higher MT levels.
In general, the creature with higher Might might have more and/or cooler powers on it's own, but the low Might and smaller creatures are likely to have higher MT, since they were bound before.
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My group kept a number of the 4th edition Familiar rules, the really key one being, instead of the MM being a threshold your lab total needs to reach, instead you subtract the Familiar's Might from any totals.
It goes a long way toward equalizing Familiars. (As does generally keeping the Might low and not letting them help with lab totals.)
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I think making the might subtract from totals is a good idea. Though, I feel like being able to revisit the cords might not make it such a deterrent.
I lobbied the story guide to
Make the might not matter. Aka a might 25 is still “grog level” 3/3 virtue and flaws and the might 10 insect should have the same number of powers. The 25 might creature will have more might points and resistance.
How do you handle small familiars below size -4? They are very squishy and super low threshold to bind.
Most Magi would do their outmost to keep such familiars hidden, or give them, if they lack them, powers like Veil of Invisibility, so it's harder to notice them.
The fact they're low threshold to bind means starting magi can bind them, but they will generally also be low might, maybe 5 or at most 10. it would be a very rare small creature with Might above 10, and even 10 will be rare.
And unless I play that Familiar, I'll let the magi decide how to handle him, but he will be aware that a squishy Familiar, if not given some care and protection, could die.
Thanks! Do you have a source for the might levels of small creatures? Could you have a might 30 butterfly according to the rules?
You could have a Might 100 butterfly. In principle. In practice, I would not expect any high-Might butterflies to show up.
Small creatures will usually not have a very high Might score, but that is a matter of judgment rather than a matter of rules.
For Magic Things, there are minimum Size requirements for various Might scores, but that's specific for Magic Things.
So many great answers. It seems to boil down to a consensus with the story guide and the troupe.
Thank you for your guidance!
Thank you for all of the guidelines and advice!
Yep. They have a power like Wrath of Whirling Winds and Water but with an increased range and slow activation.
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@ a 100 might, the Magi is the familiar of the Butterfly.
100 is a bit over the line but I can see high might creatures wanting to re-live their youth a bit by finding a willing Magi to bind and have temporary relief from the burden of their might.. i.e gain the ability to learn again as a low might creature.
W
Keep in mind that you can increase the Might of a Magic Creature, for example feeding it vis (see RoP:M, pp.52-54, and the Improved Might Minor Quality on p.41).
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