# LOM math issue

according to LOM running speed is quick+2 paces (yards) per combat round, multiplied by 4 for running. According to the main book 1 diameter (2 minutes) is 20 combat rounds, so the typical combat round is 6 seconds.
The upper end of human speed is about 12.4 m/s, which would be about 74.4 paces per round running, divide by 4 gives 18.6 paces per round, or a upper quickness of about 8.6 for a normal human being.
Methinks this does not add up.
Also if walking the typical person moves at about 1.4 m/s, which would be 8.4 paces per round...

Peeps just ran slower back then. I mean, c'mon, running for your life against pirates trying to kill everyone in the village is NOTHING when compared to trying to win that shiny gold medal! Just sayin'....

Excuses for slower walking and running speed in Mythic Europe -

The ground is generally uneven except in well defined areas.

Poor quality shoes, with no arch support, thin soles, and limited tread.

Physical wear and tear from daily life was greater, leading to spine, hip, general posture and gait difficulty.

The rules assume an ordinary person, not a professional/athlete. Professionals (runners, walking messengers, including Redcaps) add Athletics.

Also, it's in Lords of Men, and using combat rounds as time, right? So there's probably armor assumed; even if it's light, it might slow you down a bit simply due to getting in your way compared to normal walking.

If it is based on your quickness stat I don't see how it assumes anything about the people running...

You're basing your 'upper speed' on sprinters like Usain Bolt.

In the 1920s, the olympic speed record for the 100m sprint was 10.6 seconds, not 12.4.

When you change the 'human maximum' down based on 10.6s to run 100m, your 'highest quickness' value changes dramatically. And that's only from 100 years ago. Did humans change that much in 100 years? Or did the surface, shoes, etc. change?

The only place I'd say the LoM speeds need adjusting is that I think it should also add size to the overall speed base value. Otherwise cats move like cars and giants don't move at all despite their very long legs.

As noted, the 12.4 figure is Usain Bolt, who runs in short bursts. Mr Bolt can't maintain that speed for more than three combat rounds.

The record for the 1000m sprint is currently slightly above 7.4 m/s. (2 minutes 11.96 seconds). So, with all modern advantages, that's about how well people can do over two minutes. The mile record currently is about 7.2 meters per second.

First, it says Quickness+10, which fits your math statement (18.6-10=8.6) but disagrees with the original statement. (Also, you need not calculate as the 6-s round is stated explicitly, though it is admittedly hard to find.)

Second, why are you using 12.4 m/s? The rules take an average speed approach. They don't deal with all the acceleration issues. Usain Bolt doesn't even pull that off on average. His best is 9.58 s for 100 m. That's just over 10.4 m/s. He's a little slower in the 200 m. Presumably he starts slowing due to failing Fatigue rolls around the 18-s mark (3 rounds). So we're looking at 15.6 paces/round (before multiplier), not 18.6 paces/round. With no other considerations, that puts Usain Bolt at Quickness +5.6, not far off the +5 limit. Maybe he has Mythic Quickness for an extra little bonus.

Third, consider what Kid Gloves wrote about equipment. Look at what's happened to horse-racing times versus human-racing times. Horse racing times aren't improving the same way. Some of that is that horses don't have the same conception of world records. But there is also the issue that the horse equipment hasn't been evolving like the human equipment. There were a bunch of people who ran 10.6 to 10.4 s between 1905 and 1930, roughly. That was before modern equipment and modern training, but still at a point when there were records to chase. If we use 10.5 s, we get an average speed of just over 9.5 m/s. That's just under 14.3 paces/round (before multiplier), what we get for Quickness +4.3.

So it looks quite reasonable for the upper end of Quickness and sprinting.

As for walking, is 8.4 paces/round so far off 10 paces/round? I've mucked around with heavy-simulationist rpg stuff, trying to get walking, running, and sprinting speeds to work out. I paid attention to 100 m, 200 m, 400 m, 800 m, 1600 m, and longer. That involved working in endurance and maximum speed as relates to strength, weight, stamina, height, ... It's so incredibly difficult to get things to work out reasonably. I didn't quite achieve what I wanted, though I was getting close. But I haven't worked on that in a while. I really don't think you want all that in the typical rpg. That means making a sacrifice somewhere. If we're going to get a maximum speed to work out so nicely, that something else will have to give to keep simplicity. It seems like walking speed is what gave, but it's not so far off. Personally, I walk closer to 10.7 paces/round and I do blow past people. But that's not speed walking, just that my walk is faster than average. Knowing regular walks can exceed 10 paces/round makes me even more content with 10 paces/round.

If you really want to niggle the details, I'd be more concerned with the bit about moving or fighting as opposed to moving while fighting. Having fenced, I can say that's really not true. It would be much more true within a unit in formation that in a dueling situation. But I figure we're hand-waving the motion within the combat itself since, while it could be relatively quick, it doesn't usually cover a great many paces; 10 paces, sure, but not several times over.

Yes, that gets tricky. But including Size would still be problematic. Cheetahs are not bigger than horses and certainly not bigger than elephants. Also, quickness factors against the bigger animals. It gets messy.

Also, mythic giants are slow and ponderous of movement. Jack can easily scurry out of the way of the guy who wants to grind his bones.

at minimum I think we need a different multiplier for quadrupeds- they are generally faster and if we stick with these calculations the average rabbit should have quick:14 instead of quick:4...
should quadrupeds be at 20+quick base, or run at 16x base move? Or some compromise of the two?

Those LoM speeds are specifically for humans. I suppose applying it to giants is a reasonable logical progression, but cheetahs and rabbits aren't human and wouldn't use the same formula. (Also, animal characteristics can vary much more wildly than human characteristics, so Speed 14 rabbit may well be possible, though I don't think it's actually that high.)