Mages and armor

Right. You throw in quite a few different questions here. There seems to be three use cases, is that right?

  1. Something parallel to the Bear's Fortitude. I agree, this gives less load/encumbrance than an armour to take off and on. It is probably going to be more load than the Bear analogy, since the human anatomy is more bear-like than beetle-like.
  2. Making a mould or template for an armourer to make metal armour. No, I do not think this is going to reduce encumbrance. It is still a loose set of plates, to which the body is not designed.
  3. Making a beetle armour which can be taken on or off. Are you really satisfied with circle duration for that purpose?

Sorry for the meandering thought process.

At first I was panning on making a spell that reduces the load of armor focusing on a MuCo affect since some of the load is due to the discomfort and awkwardness of moving in armor.

Then I was reminded that I "found" a dead guy and he's been kept fresh in storage.
So I wanted to see what a human with a "natural" exoskeleton would look like.
It looked good so I wanted to have one made out of metal, thus is was "removed" for examination...
(you know, the stuff I/we pull in RPG's sometimes I think writing them down should get me on a list somewhere)
So in point 1, yes that was correctly deduced.
point 2 yes on the first part and the second, yes it was literally designed for the body.
point 3 that was just to keep the effect going while it was being examined and templated.

The armour may have been designed for the body, but the human body is not designed for exoskeleton.

and it could be with some MuCo :sunglasses: My brain is weird, and I am sorry.
There was a reason why this was a confusing and rambling 2-3 parts in one post conversation.

Sure, but that adaptation holds only for the duration, as per (1), and is of no help for cases (2) and (3).

If you want to go that route, you are probably better off doing a full MuAn into (say) a cricket. Those extra limbs have excellent combat potential, so why do you settle for just its armour? What better defence can you imagine but sword, shield, and quarterstaff? Or for the more offensive stance, there is the three-handed claymore and shield. Cf. WorldTree.

Yeah, you are correct. I'm just scratching an itch for perfectly comfortable armor.
The MuCo spell is actually what you enchant the armor with to have a flawless segmented metal skin.
It could be done in so many ways, I just found it weird that all the improvement spells for armor focus on making it harder or lighter and nothing at all on the user.

Skin tight full plate, segmented and flexible under enchanted robes. What a figure you'd cut.

I have plans for an animated blob of pine tar armor in another post, my first post

I'll experiment on that first since my mage has the chops now to test something like that.

Just two thoughts,

First, both using MuCo the user or MuAn the armor (or MuFo any armor with the appropiate form for that matter) are valid ways to get the same thing, but my gut keeps saying "no way, change the armor, not the user". There are two reasons for that; first that someone expecting to be in combat performance would probably decrease the more you change him for his usual shape and state: think that combat involves a lot of movement of your body. The more you change it, the more these movements would feel odd or just be wrong. The second, that a botch will probably be less inconvenient on a spell cast on the armor. That's my logic, not rules. I guess on my table I'd probably put you an extra botch dice or two and move on.

On the other hand the reason to go with the other approach of making the user fit the armor is way more odd, and so colourful, and that's always good, so whatever.

And second, when I read "decrease the physical weight of armor" I keep thinking that that would probably not work as intended. Armors (and weapons, for that matter) work because you put something hard between the incoming weapon and the flesh, but also because they actually weight, and that weight puts inertia and kinetic energy to play against the hit (or for it, in weapons). A sword (or an axe, which is an even better example) cuts not just because it is sharp, but because it is a tool build to apply a lot of force through that sharp edge, and that's why it is so important to have a balanced sword, which is a sword with the weight properly placed. For armors I suspect that there must be something less obvious but also important regarding their weight being required to absorb properly and distribute the force of an impact in a less damaging way.

I mean I'm strongly against weightless armors (and weapons), and you mentioned them, but back to the beetle armor, what I said: I would never do that by default, but it seems quite cool for someone else to do.

Now you have moved into the Newtonian universe.
We play in Mythic Europe, remember.

I only partially agree with your view on the weight, full pate is only around 50lb in total.
Armor is used to deflect, absorb blows and to spread impacts over larger areas.

So the actual weight is not so much the point, unless it's for the sake of comfort.
The most discomfort would come from the thickly padded under armor, it is also the main working part of the armor.

The exoskeleton (bug armor) suit and the corresponding MuCo spell was supposed to "grow" the under armor to fill the manufactured shell, though now that I'm phrasing it like this it might be CrCo... anyway, that was my thoughts.

I would argue in mythic Europe physics, armour stops things mostly because it is heavy. Plate does better than chain, chain does better than leather. The heavier the armour, the better the protection. A weightless armour, would lose a lot of it's protective powers.

It's all about thinking other ways how to get what you want.
The unchafed man Muto Corpus.
The target's skin become tough enough to be immune to all chafing effects. While many think the person who originated this spell, was trying to get his grogs onside by making wearing armour irritation free, he was just annoyed at getting blisters every time he got new shoes.

The comfortable man Perdo Mentem sun duration

All minor irritants which don't cause serious long term damage are removed from the mind of the target.

The elegant man Muto Imaginem with a mentem requisite
Anyone looking at the target see someone wearing the most splendid version of what they are wearing, being armour or clothes, and even a sackcloth, will look tailored to fit.

I know this is nowhere near what you want, I am just having some fun.

Why? Heavy armor doesn't provide more protection in the real world, so why would it in Mythic Europe?
(Exception is helmets, where weight and the accompanying inertia does help to protect against some types of damage)

There is an example spell for reducing the weight of an armor already, see Hauberk of Sublime Lightness (HoH:S p. 38). Reducing the weight doesn't impact the protection offered by the armor.

I failed my mythic physics module, so I have no grounds to object as far as the real, authentic mythic Europe is concerned, but two pts can be made.

  1. It is non-canon. There are weightless armour spells, and also armour out of almost weightless materials.
  2. Mythic inertia is not a thing, so whatever physical model you use, inertia is not part of it.

That is awesome, please by all means continue having fun.
I can almost feel the covenants libraries swelling with useful spells.
I'm really liking the Elegant Man spell, maybe change that to Elegant Mage, I'd guess it would provide a bonus as one would get from finely tailored clothes.

Oh, on the subject of helms, here's an idea I have been wanting to realize.

The Angelic Helm

This helm is basically a metal bucket with good padding inside and many tiny holes punched in to the face plate, a metal circle large enough to include the entire helmet is fitted to the brow.

The circle maintains a set of spells.
The first is base 5 PeIm spell rendering the helm invisible and in substantial to all senses but touch. This removes penalties normally associated with full helms.
The second effect is a circle version of Chamber of Spring Breezes.
The effect resolves into the wearer appearing to be wearing a halo while rendering foul or harmful air impotent.

Hey I just used modern terminology for stuff that swordsmiths of the time must already knew, given how swords were made at the time. No differential equations were used on the making of that post, I swear.

Fact is that most one handed weapons weigh around 1.5kg while 2 handed weapon would weigh around 2.5 kg.

The human body : wrist, forearm and shoulder can't stop or move objects fast enough in a fight otherwise.

So in a fight the advantage goes to the guy with the fastest weapon and the longest reach there are a veritable slew of other factors to consider but these are the main ones.
While weight has a limit in weapons, the focus of that limited weight to a point or an edge is why swords and axes and stuff was invented. Magic can change all of this, but I'm speaking for a historic standpoint.

The unchafed man MuCo 15
Base 5 +2 Sun +0 Per +0 ind

The target's skin become tough enough to be immune to all chafing effects. While many think the person who originated this spell, was trying to get his grogs onside by making wearing armour irritation free, he was just annoyed at getting blisters every time he got new shoes. Soak +1


True. My brain went to ZZ Top's "Sharp Dressed man", however that name would only work in a modern setting, thus the slight shift in name, however, for spell names, in nearly all cases Mage is better, and I should have shifted.