Magic creatures and physical attacks

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

It seems to be the consensus on the forum that physical attacks by magic critters are not resisted by MR. I'm trying to figure out why.
Let me explain where the confusion is.

Let's say a bunch of characters are attacking -- oh, say, a dragon.

A grog swings a sword with a magical effect on it. It's resisted no matter what the magical effect actually is. (See 'pink dot' exploit.)
A magus under the influence of a Longevity Ritual throws a punch. It's resisted, because the LR is a magical effect.

A faerie knight swings her sword. The sword is a part of the knight's role -- it's formed from the same stuff that the knight's body is, held together by the knight's faerie nature. So it is actively magical and thus SHOULD be resisted, right?
A magical boar with the Improved Attack magic Quality tries to gore the dragon. His tusks don't have an active magical effect on them -- not a Power -- but they are affected by the Quality. Are they resisted? If not, why not?
A magical boar without said Quality tries to gore the dragon. Are his tusks resisted? If not, why not? It's a magic creature, so all parts of it are magic...
A grog swings a sword that's a Magical Thing (from RoP:Magic) at the dragon. Is that resisted? If not, why not?

( Note: I'm only interested in the RAW, not any house rules, etc. Don't tell me how you think it should work -- tell me what the rules say. :slight_smile:)

2

It is one of the not-so-great points of Ars. However, not all your examples are true.

  1. Grog with sword. Word resisted. YES
  2. Punch by LR magus. Punch NOT resisted.
  3. Sword of Fae Knight. Resisted. Not part of his role, really. In general, tools are resisted, while "natural appendages" if you would say are not. Even if a sword is part of the same glamour, it is still a tool and is resisted.
  4. Magical boar not resisted. natural weapons. A quality is not an active magical effect
  5. Grog swing Stormbringer at the dragon. LMAO. You got me there (and maybe with the faerie as well). I just envisioned the grog grabbing the magical boar by a leg and hitting the dragon with it while the boar (and the dragon!) squeals in terror :mrgreen: :laughing: I guess in this case it would be a troupe decision about this_: is being swinged a "natural attack" by the sword-creature? If the answer is "yes", it would not be resisted.

It might not make a lot of sense, but it is how I have seen it played.

3

I've always had some doubts about this too, specially with faeries. I just checked RoP: Faerie and found this bit:

So, is the Faerie Knight's sword a "prop", as opposed to an active effect, and it shouldn't be resisted? :question:

4

Ah, then the sword is not stopped, yep.

Xavi

5

Agreed.

Why not?

as already discussed, incorrect.

correct.

Not resisted, I think. Source? can't provide one.

EDIT: You specifically didn't want house rules, and the following is borderline that.
Magical entities manifest their bodies with infinite penetration. Quirk of reality.
This is not my house rule, but it is an attempt to sum up what appears to be RAW.
Maybe :unamused:

6

Pink Dot RAW is confusing.

I tend to rule it as "If the effect doesn't enhance the weapon's usefulness as a weapon, it doesn't need to penetrate." so turning a weapon pink or putting a pink dot on it won't make it any better as a weapon, so it's therefore got no need to penetrate.

7

I'm really not sure about this. The section on Magic Things in RoP: Magic seems to imply that both an Enriched or Awakened "Thing" can be resisted. If the grog's sword is really "Stormbringer" and thus it's similar to these, maybe it should be resisted?

8

Good point.

9

As long as Stormbringer doesn't have an active magical effect on it, it penetrates. Virtues and Qualities aren't active effects. It's just like hitting someone with a dragon. :slight_smile:

10

Okie. That's what I needed to know. Seems a bit silly that innately magical things are not stopped by MR, but the alternative is extremely silly, so I guess it works. :smiley:

11

Xavi suspects that Jordi and Laura, that also read the forums (even if they do not post, damn lurkers) will just bring forward using dragon as missiles in the next session

12

  • A grog swings a sword with a magical effect on it. It's resisted no matter what the magical effect actually is. (See 'pink dot' exploit.)
    => YES

  • A magus under the influence of a Longevity Ritual throws a punch. It's resisted, because the LR is a magical effect.
    => Good question. It all depends if you consider the LR to be, or not, an active magical effect. It seems to be one (the warping), thus probably yes*

  • A faerie knight swings her sword. The sword is a part of the knight's role -- it's formed from the same stuff that the knight's body is, held together by the knight's faerie nature. So it is actively magical and thus SHOULD be resisted, right?
    => No. That's been resolved.

  • A magical boar with the Improved Attack magic Quality tries to gore the dragon. His tusks don't have an active magical effect on them -- not a Power -- but they are affected by the Quality. Are they resisted? If not, why not?
    => IIRC, no. The quality doesn't make his attacks magical. It just means his tusks are deadlier than normal tusks. Consider that this is akin to "Puissant Damage with Tusks", if it makes things easier. OTOH, if he had a power to sharpen them, they would be resisted.

  • A magical boar without said Quality tries to gore the dragon. Are his tusks resisted? If not, why not? It's a magic creature, so all parts of it are magic...
    => No. Magical creatures are "natural": Their existence doesn't depend on any constant active magical effect. Thus, unless they're under some kind of effect, their attacks are natural, and thus not resisted. This is explained somewhere in the corebook, IIRC.
    OTOH, a boar created through temporary magic (not a momentary ritual) would be resisted, because his existence depends on that constant active effect.

  • A grog swings a sword that's a Magical Thing (from RoP:Magic) at the dragon. Is that resisted? If not, why not?
    => Nope, exactly like with the boar. That thread might interest you :wink:

  • A way to solve that, a way also to make swords of power doable, is to rule that constant magical effects (that is, LR and Sun+4 items), are not resisted. As far as I can see, this has few drawbacks and improved a little a duration that is seldom used.
13

No, because magical creatures aren't resisted and they are doing whatever magical creatures are doing. When someone explains it, faeries are either doing it or pretending to do it, and maybe all faeries are sock-puppets of Chthulunoid beings in Deep Faerie anyway.

[/quote]
The rules say no, because otherwise the Parma makes magi invulnerable in combat, and that doesn't fit the stories we want to tell. Why it works in the game world is a question no-one has a firm answer to.