Magic Items with Abilities

Has anyone implemented the optional rule from 4th edition “Magical Items with Abilities” (WGRE p100) in 5th ed? The amount of xp allowed for each invested pawn of Intellego Vis would need to be changed, maybe 15, 20, or 25 xp per pawn instead of 5 xp since 4th ed uses the same xp cost for abilities as arts. Any older players use that rule in 4th ed and have thoughts either way?

There is Heron of Alexandria's Legacy in cp. 6 (p.75ff) of Ancient Magic (AM). As part of a saga it may lead to a Major Hermetic Virtue, which can awaken the spirits of imbued devices. These devices can then learn Abilities by normal learning rules. An example of such a device is on p.84 box.

Simply putting skills into enchanted devices in ArM5 opens many cans of worms:
Do the devices have a mind or a soul?
Are they affected by Mentem?
How do they perceive their surroundings?
What happens if they can read?
Will they be able to study?
That is something to discuss with your troupe in depth. Just grabbing an old rule does not help there.

Many of those questions are answered if it’s a tree that one awakens similarly to Gwidion in MoH. Though, admittedly, some are not. Though some are directly answered by the section I mentioned of WGRE.

It's not based on the 4e rules, but coincidentally in the latest post in my "30 Dimons for November" project I suggest some alternate rules for awakening crafted items with hermetic magic:

The general idea is that the item can be taught abilities for a period as if it was a being with no might, but it must be fed vis every season to keep it stable while you do so. During this period the magus can also try and influence the traits and powers of the awakened item. Might be of some interest.

For using the old rules it's tricky because of pyramid scales. 25xp is probably the closest direct conversion, just under a score of 3 if starting from 0, that's what I would go with to get the same feel as how it worked in 4e.

Indeed. There Hermetic magic contains very useful not-so-Hermetic holdovers.

The questions from ArM5 mostly come from A&A p.31ff 'The Human Mind'. In WGRE p.100f 'Magic Items with Abilities' there are a several "at the storyguide's discretion" and "the storyguide must decide" - which translate to troupe approval in ArM5 anyway.

The Verditius Automata Mystery has a level formula for instilling certain Abilities as effects on page 130.

Animae Magic could allow Pretenses? The Merinita Nature Mystery of Awakening grants Might, which allows for XP granting qualities.

Argentius, yes, I hadn’t seen that submission yet but it’s quite cool. Unfortunately the character I plan on moving towards Hermetic Theurgy is in another game but I’ve been following your posts there fairly closely when I have a chance to check. Definitely need more example Daimons in the world.

One Shot, sure, like any specific question one needs to discuss it with one’s SG but I was asking what folks thought about it and if anyone had experience with it either in 5th or 4th eds.

Jason72, interesting. I hadn’t really checked out the Automata stuff before though it doesn’t quite work in this instance as it would be a living tree (maybe closer to a golem) rather than a mechanical device with separate moving parts. But perhaps something to think about and discuss with my SG when/if I get there.