We have a thread to discuss new spells. I figured it would be good to have a thread to discuss magic items and the questions that arise in their creation.
Multiple Triggers for a Magic Item
I posted this question on the ArM thread and got some mixed responses. I thought I'd post it here to see what the troupe thinks.
My question is: can you have multiple triggers for a magic item? For example, could you have an environmental trigger (e.g., sunrise/sunset) and a verbal trigger?
Of course, you'd always have to have enough charges for your trigger, but that's true any time you want to use an item. If I speak the commend word and I'm out of charges nothing will happen. Likewise if a sunset trigger comes up and I'm out of charges, nothing will happen.
Clearly, based on the example on p. 108 of Through the Aegis multiple triggers are allowed. There, an effect "Know the Power" has four separate linked triggers. But the question remains, what about the free verbal trigger that you normally get?
It seems to me that if you can stack up linked triggers, that your "base" verbal trigger should remain. Consider this example. Say I build a protective spell into an amulet that casts Ward Against Heat and Flames every sunrise and sunset. But as a hedge against the effect being dispelled between sunrise and sunset, I toss in a few extra charges per day. If the effect is dispelled, can I then verbally trigger the effect before the next sunrise or sunset?
Taking the example to the level of absurdity, if I paid for two environmental triggers (one of sunrise/sunset, the other of the user speaking the command word), then that should be legit according to TtA. But we generally get that particular environmental trigger for free. Effectively, every magic item has the free modifier +0 environmental trigger: user speaking command word. So when we add a new environmental trigger, we have two environmental triggers, which seems legit to me.
In any case, that's my thought on the matter. What do the rest of you think?
Because of my lack of knowledge in this thematic I will go with this answer from your thread:
So its a careful yes we should allow it.
I agree. You get the Command word effect for free, and then every additional trigger adds three to the complexity of the effect.
I'm considering having Poenitens learn how to paint. He'd update his lab with exquisite art. What would the shape bonus for a paintbrush be for images? A quill gives +7 to scribing, so I thought that a brush might give a +5 to painting, or images. This would be used to make a Verditius Item of Quality.
This starts us down the slippery slope of assuming that other unlisted items should have S/M bonuses as well. Where does it end?
I think canonically, the listed items are the ones that have been documented by hermetic magi in enough detail that the S/M bonus can be used successfully. Other potential affinities exist, but haven't been documented, and so can't be used.
That having been said, it's our saga, we can do what we want. But as I said, we head down a slippery slope when we introduce one undocumented S/M bonus. Can others be far behind?
Are we allowing the purchase of Objects of Virtue with BPs? If so, what would they cost?
I had thought that every +1 of bonus would cost two BPs. So you can have a level 25 effect in a device, or a +5 item. Does that seem reasonable?
What about this as a lab item?
[size=150]Pot of Blooming[/size]
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind
Device: an almond wood pot with runes carved around it.
Effect: When a tree or plant is placed in this pot, a command word can be spoken to have the plant bear fruit as if it had grown over the course of a full growth period. The process takes a full day or night for the fruit to fully grow. When used in the lab, this gives a +2 Cr Specialization, and a +1 He specialization.
(Base 15, +1M Touch, +2M Sun)
Yes, I know this is similar to the Prodigious Plant Pot. But I was trying to modify it in a way that focused on Creo more. This takes an existing plant and brings it to fruit, rather than growing a whole plant. I took it from the Tree focus in the Covenants book, which states that Trees give a bonus to Cr or He. I was tempted to ask for +3 Cr, but realistically, it probably would have some He bonus in it as well.
It looks ok. The idea is to bring a mature tree to fruition in a day. The only concern I have is getting trees to fit into your pot - it's got to be pretty big, and then you need to get out the tree. Because you're working with trees, it might need a point of Size from your lab. You might want "Grand Entrance" to your lab to get trees in and out, if you don't take Exposed or Outside.
Two thoughts. First, you can get some small trees, even small trees that fruit. I bought my wife a lime tree for Christmas that’s not much bigger than a small Bush, and they promise it will bear fruit within the year. Second, I suspect that he’s not going to swap out trees a lot. He’s more likely to have a single tree (that might have started out relatively small) and just use it on that tree as a regular test subject.
Ok, I withdraw my objection.
Plus, I was thinking a lemon or lime tree. So, free lemonade or limeade!
wasn't sugar a import good from India or Arabia during the time we play? So it should be mostly honey that was used to sweet things.
It’s mostly honey, yes. But there is some sugar being grown in the Levantine for export to Europe. It’s very expensive, true. But we’re also incredibly rich, so it’s not unreasonable to expect that we might have some cane sugar.
I posted a question on the main ArM thread about the InMe 15 guideline of "speak with any one human" and the theory that this guideline allows two-way mental communication with a target (with a Creo requisite). It's better than the CrMe 3 guideline of sending thoughts, since it allows two-way communication, but it's more expensive, since it's base 15 rather than base 3. I was wondering what the rest of you thought about that. If I'm correct, I was thinking of the following magical effect for a device:
R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Ind
This spell allows the caster to communicate mentally with one person whom he is touching.
(Base 15, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +5 device maintains conc,, +10 unlimited use)
Does this seem a reasonable effect? I was keen to keep it to a level 25 effect (less the "maintains conc and unlimited use additions) to avoid warping.
It looks correct to me, note that there are several pages describing such effects in Transforming Mythic Europe, beginning page 93. Note that this won't work on a magus at all, because zero Penetration. Also, it requires touch. Couldn't you make it Eye range? Targets would look at a gem, or small feature on the device - its "eye."
This is not an easy item to make, are you sure that this is worth the effort?
Ive got ot find my copy of TME and look through that.
I realize that. I was thinking of it as something that could be used for a magus to communicate remotely with grogs or companions. My plan, if it would work, is to have an Opening the Intangible Tunnel effect also in the device. Again, that would have 0 penetration, but wouldn't need any for connecting to a grog or companion. That allows you to use a Touch ranged spell or effect on the target. It makes the device an invested device because it needs two effects. But a medieval cell phone could be useful. Get afew arcane connections and in your address book and you're good to go.
I could do that. But since the plan is to use it primarily with an Intangible Tunnel, I shouldn't need that.
It might not be worth it. I was just at the tail end of my development and trying to think of some nice flavorful items to make. Not necessarily looking for efficient devices, but ones that would be interesting.
A few items that Daedalus will either have or have lab texts for:
Wooden hearth of laboratory heating: this is a hickory furnace lesser enchantment which heats the air in the room to be warm to the touch (base effect 2) with range touch (+1 mag), target room (+2 mag), duration sun (+2 mag), 2 times/day (+1 level)= level 16 enchantment, shape bonus: hearth create heat +7, hickory bonus:+4 ignem (limited by MT) provides magical heat as per the virtue in laboratories (produced as lesser enchantment)
Wooden lamp of lab lighting: produces daylight level lighting to one room: base effect:5 (light as per a clear day) target:room (+2 mag), range touch (+1 mag), duration:sun (+2 mag), 2 times/day (+1 level)= level 31 enchantment, shape bonus lamp:produce lamp +7, hickory ignem +4, limited by MT (produced as lesser enchantment)
scabbard of delayed wounds: detects if the wearer is wounded (InCo:4) duration:day (+2 mag) range:touch (+1 mag) target individual, triggered by sunrise/sunset (+3 levels) level:16, and heal heavy or lighter wounds (CrCo:25), range touch (+1 mag), duration:day (+2 mag), unlimited times per day (+10 level), activated by enchantment - wound detection(+3 levels)= level 53, created with an expiry of 7 years shape bonuses: none material bonuses: hyacinth wood used for +2 bonus to healing wounds