For the purpose of warping does the final level of a magical item or does the level of the effect count for determining if it counts for magical warping.
For example if a magical effect in an item has a final total of 35 for things like frequency etc but the spell cast is only a 25 does the item inflict warping. I would say not but there is discussion within our group.
Final effect is what will warp the target.
We don't count frequency etc. What warps is explicitly subject to variation, so troupe preferences carry a lot of weight.
I realise that's not much help if your troupe don't agree...
With other things (dispelling, MuVi) you use the effect level rather than the final, modified effect level, so I don’t see why you would use the modified effect level for warping.
Now, for enchanting in the first place and for disenchanting you use the modified effect level instead.
This would also be consistent with a caster, where you don’t care about their penetration, ability to concentrate, nor how many times they can cast the spell in a day when you check Warping.
My group has always discounted the 'modifiers' when determining how an item warps the target. While we don't consider it a house rule (since different groups lean both ways) it was something we clearly defined at the beginning of our saga.
Do you have a source for that? The descriptions under MuVi just say "spell level" and no where does it say "Base level of spell" or "effect level".
It shows up repeatedly in canonical examples. Look at Anointing the King (HP p.101-102), and you'll see it works on a level-30 effect, which is what The Rising King is without uses/day, environmental trigger, and linked trigger. Sharpening the Wizard's Blade (MoH p.51) is probably the most explicit, saying,
another enchantment in the talisman that has a unmodified level (that is, excluding Uses per Day, Penetration, and so forth)
okay, having read it, I'm going to have to disagree with your interpretation, although I appreciate your input.
MuVim (from core inset): Significantly change a spell of less than or equal to the level + 1 magnitude of the Vim spell.
It doesn't say base effect.
From annointing of the king: (Base effect 25 (to affect a level 30 Corpus effect), +1 Touch; +3 linked trigger, +15 Penetration 30)
Base effect + others, so not spell level + others, base effect.
Also from annointing of the king: listed as MuVi 48. Not MuVim 25+23
Everything I've seen and read (and re-read) with the guidance of you and others leads me (and I'm fine with you having a different interpretation) to the total effect of an enchanted item potentially causing warping even if the base effect is under 30.
Thanks again!
Spell guidelines usually refer to base level despite using spell level as the term.
For example: Mirror of Opposition works on effects equal or less than (level-1 magnitude), despite the fact that according to the relevant guideline it should be (level+1 magnitude) whoch at the very least confirms the guidelines referring to the MuVi spell is referring to the base level of the MuVi spell. It is not too unreasonable to assume it also talks about the base level of other spells.
Regarding this-
I would say number of uses a day doesn't particularly make each instance of the effect more potent, and the penetration shouldn't count towards it because penetration doesn't count towards warping for spells.
So overall, I'd say the modified effect doesn't determine warping.
And I didn't say "base effect," did I? Notice what I was talking about with The Rising of the King. Its Base is only 10. But you need to handle level 30 with MuVi. Why? Because you need to handle the full effect, including Sun, Touch, and the extra magnitude for the requisite. But you don't need to handle level 37. You don't need more for uses/day, concentration, environmental trigger, etc.
So either you've misread what I've written or you've misread what's written in the books.
You might want to reread all sorts of item enchantments. No, it's not listed as 25+23. But it is listed as 30+18. Take a look at the commas v. the semicolon. There is the item effect before the semicolon. Then there are the extra levels (not magnitudes) that are added on after the semicolon that create the modified effect for the whole item.
Well, that's a crappy typeface! That semi-colon looked like a comma to me, I thought it was a comma.
Okay, I bow to your (likely) younger eye-sight.