I want to create a room inside which there is a CrCo effect (+ recovery).
Its a lesser enchanted device.
What's the magical effect? I need it to be permanent (so, its either sun+ environnemental change or concentration+maintening), and affects everybody in rooms
I give it these caractheristics:
base Y (depends on the final level, because i have an average labtotal in CrCo)
+0 pers (like its described: "personnal means the thing"
+1 conc (the magical effect work when concentrating)
+2 room (to affect the content of a room)
+5 levels (the item maintains concentration).
So its Y+3 magnitudes +5 levels.
Is it okay with the rules?
My SG tells me that "sun+environnemental triggers" is very well known in the order, but that "concentration+maintening" is more smart and need me to do a magic theory roll +intelligence. I disagree with him and quotes part of the core book (when it says that an effect to read the thoughts (in need to use magical effects by thoughts) is constant with concentration+maintening). What's you opinion?
Well, the first question is whether you're enchanting the room, or using Hermetic Architecture from The Mysteries. Because I think your math will be significantly different between those two approaches.
Also - if you're not using Hermetic Architecture, you'll have to fit that whole room inside your lab.
It is easier to make it a central item for the room with the characteristics of R:touch D:sun T:room. Add the bonuses for environmental trigger and 2 uses per day to get a constant effect. No need to maintain concetration
A quick search through the internet /(and project:redcap) left me with this item from the Saga of palatini that might be used as an example:
Because in the rules, when we enchant items, we need to create the magical effect in the point of view of the item enchanted, not the magus.
It's said but i havent the reference here.
So, my spell doesnt need "touch" because the item is the room, and i want the spelle to affect the room ... its personnal.
And for sun or concentration, its all about magnitudes and power.
2 magnitudes +3 > 1 magnitude +5
If the range is personal the room will be healing itself, but NOT the guys within it. This is why you need touch, in fact. If the range is personal the room can only affect itself, not its contents.
I had a similar item in mind. A door that would heal those beyond it. It needed Touch range, Sub Duration, Target Room. I avoided the constant effect so as not to Warp the people in the room. It would be triggered twice a day. The nice thing, if you need it, you could raise the Target one higher to structure, and basically make a hospital.
Base Level X (Recovery +#), plus...+1 Range Touch (because the item has to touch the room - see below)
+2 Duration Sun
+2 Target Room
(+3 levels) 2 uses/day
(+3 levels) environmental trigger...or...+1 Range Touch (because the item has to touch the room - see below)
+1 Duration Concentration
+2 Target Room
(+3 levels) 2 uses/day
(+5 levels - maintain concentration)
(+3 levels) environmental triggerAs mentioned above, I would suggest that you consider making it non-permanent, to avoid warping. Have someone activate it twice a day, save that part of the enchantment, make the base bonus larger. ymmv.
Sorry, but wrong...
It's semantics to claim that the device and the temporary contents of the device are the same thing. AM Magic does not work that way.
Is the patient part of the device, as designed and enchanted? No? Then the room is not healing itself when it heals "the device only".
A mage could not have a device, perhaps a box or a jar, with range Personal, that turns lead to gold. Clever, but... no. The temporary contents do not become part of the "thing" for this purpose.
What's that you say? Once again, what is it affecting? One individual? No?... "everyone" sounds like... a... (say it with me)... a group... or perhaps a roomful of individuals.
Reread the definitions of Targets.
That your SG is inexperienced, and being dense, contrary, or both (but that's just my opinion.) That it may be "their" game, but it's also a bad sign regarding their creativity and flexibility, and their willingness to work with the players within a troupe (also my opinion.) And that this level of "challenge" for a mage is dull, and an SG should be able to do better, or you can in finding a new SG. (Yes, I am an opinionated bastid, no doubt about it. But thanks for asking - I DO feel better!)
The important word is "can". Note that the word is not "must", and there is no use of "only".
It's like saying that because everyone goes to the Main Gate of a castle, no one has ever thought to go to the back gate - ever- because everyone goes to the main gate.
The second approach has NEVER been made a commonplace alternative, in HOW MANY centuries of the Order? Pffft, please. I bet they also believe that nothing but canon spells are found in libraries? Next.
I think the 'classic' sun+3+1 permanence is better balanced (item vs spell). A world full of concentration maintained items, is a world with few spells and many items, a Verditius kind of world. In such a world, magi would end up slaving for people with powerful items to create magic toys (call it covenant gulag) because the toys diminidh the importance of the Gift.
I don't think you can avoid warping since you need the effect to last during the entire recovery period.
Having a device maintain concentration is great, except that someone has to actively focus on the effect every sunrise and sunset or else it will fade out at those times.
I agree with Cuchuluchanshruchulainsruouduchlid's formulation (except that it only takes +1 to allow 2 uses per day):
Base X
+1 Touch, +2 Sun, +2 Room
(+1 level) 2 uses/day
(+3 levels) environmental trigger
= X +5 Magnitudes + 4 levels
Depends on how long the recovery period is. A constant-continuous effect inflicts one point of warping per year, so if they are only under the effects of the enchantment for a season out of the year, then no warping. The effect needs to be continuous throughout the entire year to acquire a point of warping from it.
Okay, then take the person out of the room every once in a while. If they can be in the room for enough time that the healing works, but not enough to get warped, then that's what you want, right? If that's impossible then how can you get the healing without the warping?
You cannot. If you spend the greater part of a year under a continuous magical effect, you'll get warped. That's the spirit of the rules, trying to finesse out of the wording is Not A Nice Thing.
Yes, but if all goes well (and with bonuses such as these, all should go well), then you wouldn't need to spend any longer than a Season plus a Month plus a Week. Far short of the better part of the year.
Bah! That'll teach me to smoke crack before posting.
(Call me CH, or Hound - seems the easiest).
Many of the rules are more guidelines and general suggestions, as the situations clearly do not fit perfectly into a box, or toe a neat, clean line.
A SG would be justified to use the % of a year under the spell as a % for warping, or allow the seasons to add up, or just fake it. With rules like this, it's about the story more than the math. If giving a healing character a bit of warping would be a good addition to the story, then do it! If it would hurt the story (not the Players, the Story), then don't.
Sometimes, "Bad Things" help a story a lot. Embrace them on occasion, don't seek ways to avoid them all.
Yeah, but IMHO that would make him a killer DM. "Bad Things" that players choose to accept because the consequences would otherwise be too great, those make for great story elements & character coloring. Bad things that the SG foists upon you just to say "Ha! Gotcha!", these are not cool and not fun.
How long would a spell need to continue before you feel this "percentage of warping" is justified? Half a point for 6 months? 1-percent for being under an effect for three days? 1-percent of 1-percent of a warping point for every Diameter length spell?
I say thee nay. My opinion is that a continuous spell that lasts 363 days causes no warping as it was short of a year. Some people say the bbetter part of a year should cause warping, and I can see why that would make sense. But fractional warping for a third of a year? In my opinion, that is just overkill.
The obvious counter is to ask if you would believe that 11 months/year under a spell do not invite any warping? So where is the line drawn? At exactly 365 days, never 364? What about 350?...
"Killer" GM? Please. Some good, some bad, not completely predictable but nor certainly always seeking out only the bad, just not a slave to the numbers and math. Big diff.
Where do "I" draw the line? A full 365 days. But others believe that over half a year should count, so I go with the flow. And I am not calling you a killer DM. I am just a jerk and that is my favorite scarecrow word. What I am saying is that, it seems to me, you are more willing to err on the side of penalty than on the side of going easy on the characters. Just a perception, not a statement of what you do or don't do.
So, my question to you is this. Is being under the influence of a healing room for four months and a week count as enough for a point of warping in your opinion, or are you saying that other sg's would feel justified in this and not necessarilly referring to yourself?
I am def saying at least the latter. Imo it's a perfectly reasonable interpretation, to keep players from being too casual about any long-term spell exposure, even "only" a few weeks at a time.
And, now that you ask, I personally feel that it definitely... might. If I had to make a ruling, I'd say that it would have to be additive, and even then not a guarantee. But I doubt if I'd worry about "weeks" - not practical from a bookkeeping pov. But months would go down in my notes, and possibly something unexpected would show up if it started to add up close to 12 of them.
And I do ~tend~ to go with restrictions rather than allowances if something is in doubt and it's minor - it's easier to remove a restriction than add one later. Plus, in this case, I think it adds more flavour than penalty. A rare grog takes 1 pt of warping after spending 3 different, entire seasons under a spell - in character, would that catch anyone way off guard, or OOC seem way out of genre? Is that going to ruin the game for anyone? Hope not, for their sake.
Next game I SG here, you can take that into account.
