Maleficia & hermetic magic & warping ?

Hi fellows players,

The virtue "infernal blessing" simulates some maleficia result (using mainly incantation/diablerie effects but not only).
This virtue say "you have 3 warping points", but doesn't say that you also gain warping each year.

OTOH, maleficia are designed like spell. They can have a high level, and they often have very long duration (forsaken is almost permanent if one doesn't repent oneself!). The normal rule would be that high constant effect inflict warping each year.

But since infernal blessing doesn't say anything about it... My first question is then: do really maleficia warp, or because they are not hermetic or because any other reason, they do not?

My second is...
Some background to understand:
chtonic magic allow a magus with method and powers to use hermetic magic to do effect from guidelines of those maleficia.
Two remarks are quickly done:

  • artes liberales and philosophiae will be replaced by method and power while casting a ritual
  • so the spell must be a ritual. It makes sense because most maleficia either do something hermetic magic can't (give false power under form of virtue) or is not as good (improving oneself up to +6)

I simulated a character, and using incantation/diablerie, I used Creo Mentem for mental virtues, Corpus for physical ones, and always a Vim requisite for the "magical" part.

Those spell have, since they have ritual, the last longing duration I could use... forsaken. The same question remains: does the (hermetic maleficium) spell warp as it has a long duration effect?

I think yes, because it's some kind of basic rule of hermetic magic.

The thing with Infernal Blessings are that they use the "Forsaken duration" which is effectively "Momentary/Permanent" (See the duration's description on page 103, last sentence). Therefore, they do not inflict warping for being under a constant supernatural effect. Note also that Devil Children, because they possess Might are not susceptible to Warping from their Infernal Blessings.

The same considerations apply to hermetic spells using the "Forsaken" duration.

Thanks for your answer.

Note: for demonic child, i thought that the virtue prevented them to take infernal blessing? I'll check the "demonic blood" virtue to know... yes, it's the case: see first sentence of last paragraph.

Personally, I prefer it that the maleficia give Warping Points. I feel that it is more thematically appropriate to say that while the Forsaken Duration cannot be dispelled, it is still an ongoing effect. That is, I imagine it is more like Year than Momentary.

Any other opinion?

I think this is would be a good point for the errata; it's unclear from the rules which interpretation is correct.

My personal preference would be to assume that Forsaken Duration does not inflict "continued" warping, just like powers in the Familiar bond or powers/virtues obtained through magical Initiation. The in-game reason is that otherwise Infernal characters reap warping points viciously fast (Richard of Glastonbury would gain 15 warping points per year from his Virtues alone!), making the Infernal far less tempting.

I would point out, however, that Eric Dahl's authority (as one of the three authors of RoP:I) clearly outweighs mine :slight_smile:

Another question relating to hermetic maleficia.

Can you use maleficia in the familiar bond?

I thought yes, designed a character whose familiar bond included puissant in every art, affinity in every art, then reread the description of the hermetic maleficia... and they speak about ritual. So I went to "no" and restarted doing the character from scrap.

Do you agree with my reading that hermetic maleficia can only be ritual spells?

No. Based upon my understanding that in this instance Chthonic Magic functions in a fashion similar Holy Magic, I would suggest that the same basic rules apply. If so, ordinary spells can be designed using the maleficia guidelines, but would not allow the casters' "Method" to be applied to the Casting Total since he wouldn't normally be able to apply AL or Philosophiae either. This is one of the few instances where I think RoP: TD described the rules better than RoP: TI.
Note: IIRC, neither book really addresses Ceremonial Casting so I've ignored it here...