Map of Andorra

The translation is accurate. Unless I'm drunk, drugged or very, very tired.

Great stuff JeanMichelle!

I like the Meritxell story - perhaps the virgin of Canolic will come up in play? I have an idea for an interesting companion that might tie into this neatly but I'll discuss it with Marko first.

Seems like the edit function has reappeared, so I'll tidy the first two posts up and perhaps add a few more links etc in along the way.



The location on the map appears to contradict Mark's covenant information post that placed the covenant in the eastern Pyrenees and implied the coven was on the border of the Iberia and Provencal tribunals.

Mark, will this be changed to reflect the map or will there be another Andorra?

Err, no it doesn't...

Look at the Google Map coordinates if you're not convinced.

Andorra is definitely in the eastern half of the Pyrenees - not the easternmost tip of the Pyrenees (where the Col Perthus takes one arm of the old Roman road leading south from Narbonne along the coast), but definitely in the east. The source of the Ariege river lies just outside it's modern boundaries and in period runs down the next valley over to the east down into the Garonne which makes its way on to Toulouse.

Andorra definitely fits the bill for lying on the border of the Provencal and Iberian Tribunals.



The following entry for Pass of Envalira[of Framiquel] in the Catalan Enciclopedia indicates that the road through Andorra is extant in period: ... 8&PGMORI=E

It's probably a mud track rather than an asphalt highway and I'm not sure when the refuges were first inhabited.



Maybe I should consider calling my giant ancestor Valira, now that you mention it. Pass d'en Valira (I guess that would be original writing) mean Pass of Valira, Valira being a personal name.

Refuge of Framiquel means the refuge of Friar Miquel. There we have a potential confrontation between magic (or faerie) and divine powers, I would say.


Is this true in the laws of the region at that time, or was it usual to have the daughter marry into another family and bring the title/land with her? i.e. Is this really a 'pretext'? Or, even if a daughter doesn't inherit and then give the title to her husband at this time, if she really can't inherit... wouldn't the title revert to the crown? What 'should' have happened other than what did happen?

And do we know what happened to Aurembiax? Is she still running around out there somewhere trying to get her land back? :wink: Perhaps a story in the offing?

Yes, daughters would inherit land and marrigaes to cement treaties and land deals were common. And, from what I have read, femal nobility was not as powerless as one may imagine. They appeal to their fathers a lot, and I am reminded of bold (and trecherous) queens such as Urrica.

There was an inordinate number of illegitimate children amonst Spanish monarchs though, and they also inherited and were part of marriage treaties.

Marko is correct.

There's a bit of difference between Castile-Leon-Galicia vs Catalonia (which tended to be more feudal and linked to the Languedoc region). Male primogeniture was more common in the west, but in regions previosuly dominated by Basque tribes eg Navarre and Aragon/Ribacorga/Sobrabre there was female inheritance documented.

Female nobility in particular endowed convents, monasteries etc.

Feudalism was much less developed in Spain, even in Catalonia although once the borders started marching south there was "crown land" which was apportioned by monarchs. Many of the older northern Spanish holdings were allods (free-title) but this is becoming rarer by the time of the 13th century as the kings use the Reconquista to shore up their feudal power.

Aurembiax is a bit of a shadowy figure from 1213 (just after her marriage) and Guerau has only just wrested control on the death of her mother, Elvira in 1220 - perhaps she is still around and will try to appeal to the covenant for aid. Perhaps she is already disguised as one of the covenfolk or has agents in the covenant, unbeknownst to the magi...



Some cool links and maps ... rramap.png ... Andora.png ... ella06.jpg ... _vella.jpg ... ndorra.jpg ... IM0309.JPG ... ella03.jpg


Linked it in the wiki, and used the map :smiley:

Here is a bunch of map material I resources off of Fixer's Andorra wiki. Do note that said wiki is old and out of date. I myself didn't update it much and Fixer was kind enough to make it in the first place so I never bugged him about it.
I would like to make these full display maps posted right here instead of posting a link, but I don't know how to do that. Though I use the damn machine all the time, I am sorta retarded when it comes to computer black magic. ... rramap.png ... medium.jpg ... medium.jpg

And the castle ... medium.jpg

And yes, I realize the castle map is from the old D&D module "Keep on the Borderlands". It is nostalgia to me, dating back to 7th grade in 1982. It is the map I have always used to represent this covenant. Pay no attention to the numbered key and little bs. This is just vaguely what the covenant keep looks like.
And I have rediscovered many juicy tidbits in this thread posted years ago. And since now my knowledge of Andorra is much more expanded then it was then, I can see how to easilly incorporate some of that stuff. If desired.

A-we-some. Going to the wiki.

(Sorry, seldom here these times, leaving less time for work, meaning more work, meaning less ars)

I googled Images for Keep on the Borderlands, and found these two gems :slight_smile:
I like the second one the best.

(I have also had an increased workload, which is good because I really need to make some money for a change)

Some smallish corrections and story ideas for the map of locations:

Soldeu - El tartar. Actually in Catalan is Soldeu El Tarter, not tartar. A "tartera" is a sliding rock surface, so El Tarter would be a place with plwenty of sliding rock places:

Nice habitat for a supernatural creature of Terram that is happy to cause avalanches.

Some name translations. happily a lot of them have meaning :slight_smile:

Prats: grass fields
Pas de la casa: House's Pass
Grau Roig: Red pass (the pass is a slope that saves a mountain area that is extremely steep/vertical, otherwise it would be "pas", not "grau")
Meritxell: it is a girl name
Encamp: encampment or "in the field"
Vila: village, major farm
Escaldes: place with termal fountains. Esccaldar-se is actually to get skin blisters due to putting yourself in boiling water.
Les Salines: the salt fields. Like in English, I think (Salina)
El Serrat: the serrated one. reference to the mountains for sure.
La Cortinada: the courtained (from courtain)
Pal: it means "stick" (singular), but I am unsure if that is the meaning of the place, since wooden stick doesn't look like a great name.
Andorra la vella: Andorra the ancient/old
Llumeneres: Light's place. "LLum" means light in catalan. Ignem/imaginem vis source if you ask me
Fontaneda: fountain place.


Thanx Xavi :smiley:

Awesomeness, will find a way to work much of this in :wink: