To begin with he can't produce enough for the entire covenant. We worked out the actual numbers once- basically he produces enough bread for himself, the magi, and some of the companions- presumedly favoring the older companions.
The other thing is for the bread to have this benefit you have to keep eating it. Unlike a longevity ritual you can't just eat the bread once and be covered until it fails.
As for why he is sitting in the back of the covenant early forgotten... we have had this discussion about the effects of his bread before and yet people still continue to leave him in the bakery and forget about him. Probably because as a savant he is more than a little intimidated about the idea of leaving the covenant without protection, and really sees little reason to leave the covenant...
Nothing was ever "established". A coment uncontested does not imply agreement. Too much goes on to catch everything and honestly people are intimidated by the thought of having to disagree with Silveroak. I often am and just stay quiet and let others do my dirtywork.
The numbers are a bit redicuous and common sense dictates they should be dialed down. Also, if he is employed by the covenant Yanni works in the main kitchen and cooks for everyone and not just Marius. Also, I think Yanni is a nickname. Forgot the real name. Similar situation with Donna. Numbers are just redicuous so I ignore them.
It isn't just me. I am usuay fine with handwaving and keeping resuts minimal enough to cause few waves as possible.
So, my humble request is that the numbers get toned down or the effects are limited to Yanni and his sister.
I was fine with him cooking for everyone, you were the one who had a problem with this, so we did the math and found he would be productive enough to cook for the Magi and I believe it was 2/3 of the companions. This isn't a matter of you keeping quiet, this is what we had worked out last time we hashed through this issue.
To be fair, I think it would be simpler to give the bonus to everyone (or at least all magi and companions), and assume that if there is any kind of shortage it is irrelevant due to the fact that the older members eat more of his bread.
Can someone explain how an 8+2+1 (I'm assuming the +2 is for Puissant Baking and the +1 is the Dwarven craft bonus) translates into a -2 to aging or recuperation rolls, or how it got to the -6 that we're talking about now? I honestly don't remember seeing anything like that anywhere, and haven't the foggiest where to start looking for that.
But that still doesn't....wait. Workshop. That's...City & Guild? Let's see...workshops. P. 65 and on.
Found it. Superior Items (p. 69) provides a +1 to specific items, and gives an example of a diet of superior bread for a year giving a +1 modifier to Aging rolls. Excellent items give an appropriate bonus of an additional +1 for every 3 points that the Workshop total exceeds the Craft Level. The Craft Level for Excellent Quality items is 15 (p. 67); 23-15=8, so that's 3, or 2 if you don't round up. The total bonus limit is Craft Ability/3 rounded up, or +5 (Cooking score of 13).
Which gets us to a +3 or +4 bonus to Aging rolls (not Recovery rolls, I didn't see that mentioned there). Which...doesn't feel right.
And, granted it's 1am and way the deuce past my bedtime, but I thought I saw Marko say he doesn't have C&G or A&A and would rather that we not use them, but I can't find that now. But...I'm sitting here wrinkling my nose, scowling, and shaking my head. so...
A superior Item at 12 gives a +1 bonus, at 15 they get a +1 to all things that item would lend a bonus to, and an additional +1 for every 3 levels above that. So 23 would be +4 to the +1 at level 15.
I do not recall what I may have said or not. Nor is cnsistency one of my virtues. I just want everyne to be happy
I do not have that book, and numbers such as these dicourage me from seeking it. So I am relying on the wrds and judgments of others.
Having thught mre n it, I actualy do not realy care much. It isn't a game breaker or a plot derailer. I just don't want to sset a precedent or "establish" anything. Let it ride for now. Just a warning to everyone....
Do Not Push Numbers to Extremes.
It is more fashioonable to screw yourself a little bit.
I blame alll typos and missellings on my stui hone
Perhaps it would be less of an issue if it were posted to the covenant's attributes so everyone could remember to make use of this bonus for companions and Magi living at the covenant (as opposed to Sa Dragonna, where they presumably have their own cooks...
That is sort of the opposite of what I would prefer. I don't want any other characters tainted by this. It is an abuse of a broken rule and would make it very difficult to transfer a character to a different saga. I would instead like to limit this to affect as few people as possible. Such as just a few of your characters only.
I am letting you slide because I let it go so long and it is technically legal. But this is the literal definition of "munchkin". None of my characters nor any NPCs shall partake. If other players want to indulge then so be it. But I would prefer if they didn't and if the exitence of this flaw was deeply hidden.
This isn't a game about baker boys or blacksmiths. It is a story of wizards and adventure.
I also question the numbers. How did his score get so high? Did he spend xp on nothing else? Perhaps I need to revise the HRs to limit spending ratios?
he is a savant, putting experience into a lot of other things would not make a lot of sense
He is a background character, and this primarily comes up as an argument because there is a perception that this is only applying to my characters- or at least that has been the case so far.
I tend to focus on logistics, which is part of what I like about Ars Magica compared to other systems- the ability to utilize long term planning.
he didn't just improve his skill, he also improved his workspace to give more bonuses to his quality.
I was over harh. Very sorry for that.
However, it makes little sense to *nota diversify. How many xp did he spen on learning local languages? Cataan? Castillian (Spanish)? Arabic? How about Area Lore? Charm & Folk Ken? Is he literate?
My issue isn't that the bonus i given limited application. I myself prefer it that way. Applying it to Marius seems a bit much though, since the two characters have zero interaction.
My issues are that the numbers are extreme and I don't understand them, plus the fact that the aesthetic sensabiities of other players seem to be displeased. Thus I seek to minimize effects.
This is also over the top for a background character. So I have been thinking of how to mmake a useful story of him
You had noted previously that he makes a better hook than character, and the fact is that faeries do ted to have a certain affinity for skilled artists and craftsmen... so a faerie abduction of the man who is providing this kind of bonus to people's aging rolls would certainly make sense.
Okay a bit more detail. Some wondrous excellent food granting health and life and crap seems like a fitting medieval viewpoint. Nutrition is important. People in medieval times believed all sorts of weird stuff was good for them.
Story wise I would think a resource like this would lead to conflict/stories. Faeries being the obvious ones.
Balance wise I'll compare it to a high magic theory muggle making a specialized lab for Longevity Rituals.
At M.T. Three you could add elementary, greater focus, and two greater features for a net of +6 to longevity rituals in a regular sized lab. If it was more along the lines of a large dedicated room you would throw in Spacious, Well Insulated and Well-Stocked or whatever they are called and another greater feature for +9. Refine it three times and increase the size a little more and we throw in two more greater features. For +15 Add in priceless and precious ingredients, and some nice tools and equipment and we add like +9ish more. Toss another feature and refinement in and we're at +25ish. And now we have roughly the same benefit. To decrease upkeep you'll add some missing ingredient flaws for everything that wouldn't be used in longevity rituals. Its an investment on par with a large expensive specialized room in a modern hospital. 5ish man years of expert labor.
</unneeded maths>
Except the magic theory guy can wander off to make another specialized lab for any other activity he wants. And magi could presumably train under him to scale up their M.T. too.
Now, when we take into consideration Blood and Sand and their "errata" on excellent items needing to be customized I think a lot of magi/companions wouldn't let their diet be dictated by a Savant type, so this is totally a bonus that might get ignored by a character. Can you really see Cecilio doing that?
So tl;dr: Make some stories out of it, and let people choose if they want to use it. Everyone wins right?
