Quick rundown on some rules here for mass castings, which can be handled in this forum:
time: a day of casting is considered to be 8 hours, including any rest required. A single casting is considered to take 1 second, up to 10 casting may be 'absorbed' as inconsequential before resting. 10-40 castings is considered 1/2 a minute, 40-70 a minute, etc. A formulaic non fatiguing spell may be cast 28,800 times in one day.
spells cast in this way are considered relaxed, and are not stress dice unless required by casting type (for example fatiguing spontaneous). Non-stress rolls may be reduced to statistics. Stress rolls must be rolled.
A season is assumed to be 91*5/7=65 days. 10 days off without affecting a season of work is assumed to be moving these days around in the 26 days which remain in the season. Casting a formulaic non-fatiguing spell for a season means casting 1,872,000 times.
A season of casting a formulaic spell is considered practice (4xp) towards mastery, even if it is being used to do productive work. A season casting spontaneously only counts as exposure.
Use this thread for any seasonal contributions by magical casting from fall 1220 onwards.
For reference, I calculated what Tallus could do with a single non-fatiguing casting of ReHe for carpentry- a single casting can do what a skilled carpenter can do in one year(before adding the simple die roll- finesse+int+3 familiarity bonus)- effectively a skill 5 saving the covenant 3.5 lbs of expenses towards buildings per casting. The masons create 10.5 lbs of savings per year which covers up to 1/2 of building expenses (including cost of new buildings), with 3 casting Tallus could cover the other half... with the finesse rolls he could likely do it in 2 (essentially whatever is rolled/2 is the additional savings- 1 roll per casting)
He can use multiple castings to improve the quality of the work as he emulates a more skilled craftsman in smaller increments of time (for example craft quality 14 would require 57x the number of castings as each casting covers one day at the higher ability level)
This would contribute 7 lbs per year, or 3.5 lbs in a season
16 finess means you could do- per casting- the daily work of someone with a crafting total of 13, the monthly of someone with craft:10, the seasonal of someone with caft:7 or the yearly of someone with craft:4, which means you could do 3lbs of work per casting with the last option, 2.25 lbs per casting at the seasonal level, and on up
With non fatiguing magic you can cast 28,800 times in one day, meaning you could contribute 86,400 lbs of masonry per day, which would need to be balanced with a source of carpentry work- perhaps another spellcaster. I will note that while these building will have superior construction, they will not benefit from the additional levels of safety and other attributes they would have if they were built by Paphos. It will however build the covenant very quickly if 2 mages work together with ReHe and ReTe (or one mage alternates)
Wait, Items of Quality can let you add to you Finesse roll when using crafting magic? I did not know that. Where are the rules on that? And what's the +3 for Familiarity?
Couldn't you then just do 12 castings of a month's work each and get an effective Craft total of your Finesse result -6 for a year?
Once Talus gets there, he has the required skill in Rego carpentry magic.
IOQ's are in HOH: MC pg 124 and add to rolled skills. Silveroak has also allowed them to add to some non rolled totals such as soak and lab/craft totals. Using it with a rolled finesse falls under the first category so should be allowed in any saga. In this case, a glove provides a +4 bonus to affect things by touch, but you could also bring out another Glove trait in a different IOQ to affect things at a distance (an IOQ can only get one s/f boni). Gloves are a VERY nice IOQ.
Familiarity is a book that I don;t have, but it's my impression it adds a portion of your skill(or some other bonus) to a relevant finesse roll for the purpose of Rego craft.
I did not realize that IOQs could be used with Finesse rolls for Rego Craft spells. What must I do to obtain one of these? I would certainly have tried to get one in character generation had I known their full application.
you can, but it will have less value per casting, though actually a years work is only 6 months since it assumes 2 seasons of work.
As to the familiarity bonus, I'm referring to p.62 in HOH:societies, where an item encountered on a daily basis (like a house) gets a +3 bonus for familiarity.
OK, looks like I'm surrendering here. Two buildings, one much like Penko designed, created with the rego craft of Tartessos and Talus. The first will be out of the aura (right on the edge, actually) and comprise the "front" 3/4 of the original plan, i.e. 33k ft sq, (66k total due to two stories), comprising the covenant proper, grand entrance and hospital.
The second building will be in the aura (again right on the edge), touching the first building, only accessible from the main building. This will be built by Paphos with no more than two seasons per year of help from Penko. This building will also be two stories, 11k ft sq per level. Entry to the subterranean temples will be through this building.
The center will be Tartessos lab, 2000 ft sq on the lower level, with a 2000 ft sq sanctum directly above. A two story vaulted grand entrance will take an additional 1000 ft sq on both levels.
The lower level will also have three 2000 ft sq lab+sanctum combos (probably 1500/500, but can be customized). There is a 1000 ft sq council room. The remaining 1000 ft sq are taken up by hallways and walls.
The upper level will be similar with the aforementioned 3000 ft sq taken by Tartessos, a 1000 ft sq library and two 2000 ft sq lab/sanctum combos. 1000 ft sq taken by misc hallways and walls. The last 2000 ft sq will be subdivided into four 500 ft sq rooms, intended at some later point to be dedicated or guest labs.
Obviously Paphos will need to build all the labs. Is there any advantage to have his level of craftmanship in a council chamber or library? If not Penko can work on those, possibly assisted by Tartessos/Talus if they finish first.
A typical spring sanctum (5 points of inhabitants plus a lab) is defined with conjuring the mystic tower:
30 feet wide is 15' radius, or 706 sq ft approximately per floor, with the lab taking up 500 sq ft of the floor, leaving the living quarters (with no kitchen) at 206 sq ft, so I'm going to estimate about 100 sq ft per point of inhabitants, not counting labs or workspaces.
which comes to an abstraction of 1 lb per 100 sq ft of building.
66,000 sq ft would be 660 lbs worth of building, Masonry is being done at 3 lbs/casting, carpentry at 3.5 lbs per casting, the cost is divided evenly between them, meaning 110 castings for masonry and 95 castings for carpentry. So the entire construction time will be 2-6 minutes.
I believe that will qualify as being finished before Penko.
For the remaining 90 days, 23 hours and 54 minutes, Tartessos will assist Paphos with "normal" i.e. slow as snail snot crafting (but hopefully better quality). Maybe on his lunch break he can conjure some outbuildings.
This might have gotten lost in the noise, but how can Talus get an item of quality like the glove? This is definitely something I would have gotten previously had I known it would work for Finesse. Talus has a good bit of vis saved up, and would pay vis for an IoQ like that.
IOQs are going to be difficult to get from here on out. See the House Rules thread for our discussion on them. Basically Tartessos got them as part of character creation, but Silveroak indicated he should not have approved them and they were grandfathered in as a one time exemption. He wishes them to be made in game by a PC, but I (as a player) hate the hubris mechanism and never planned to have Tartessos get any initiations. Further, he indicated it would be difficult to purchase them in game, with only a small market of used IOQs requiring both vis and seasons owed.
Short answer, Tartessos would be happy to share whenever you need one. He actually has (3)!! of them, intending them to support his forge circle.
I was thinking about what we can do to reduce expenditure, or even possibly create a income source and naturally rego craft will have a place.
Silveroak - will these do what I want them to do?
Gather the Fruits of the Harvest
ReHe 15
Base 3: Manipulate plant products
R: Voice (+2 magnitudes)
D: Momentary
T: Group (+2 magnitudes)
This spell picks, harvests or gathers herbam based food in the same way as a laborer would, i.e. moved, gathered and stored somewhere within the spell area of affect. This spell works on all herbam food products, but some such as olives may need additional processing before being useable. Rego craft magic requires an Int + Finesse roll at -3 due to this being a simple task.
Goal: Spontaneously cast outside the aura, with -9 for doing yearly work. Finesse roll substitutes for a craft roll, and therefore provides a Provisions savings of the final roll/2. Use on Pomegranates, almonds, dates for immediate use, and other products to be processed further.
From Farm to Table
ReHe 15
Base 4: Treat plant products
R: Touch (+1 magnitude)
D: Momentary
T: Group (+2 magnitudes)
This spell processes a harvested herbam food product to be safe to eat or otherwise use. Rego craft magic requires an Int + Finesse roll at -3 due to this being a simple task.
Goal: Spontaneously cast outside the aura, with -9 for doing yearly work. Finesse roll substitutes for a craft roll, and therefore provides a Provisions savings of the final roll/2. Use to process olives, sugar etc.
As written this will do a years worth of work on 10 plants. or roughly 10 sq paces of plants.I suspect what you want to do to harvest quickly would be a season's worth of work over a target of boundry. Also note that CrHe spells can be used without vis to speed the growth and blossoming of plants.
Would boundary require a ritual? I think casting a non ritual several times would be the solution. We have the Acorn to Oak item to mature plants in a single day, all we need is labor to gather them (plus maybe another to cause them to fruit overnight as well). Since laborers only save a single pound, rego craft seems the obvious answer. If we spont the spells this year Tartessos can have magic items ready for the next.
I was calculating the finesse roll off of a year of labor because I thought that was required to affect yearly savings. If not, we could increase the roll by three and cast it twice to simulate two seasons of work, which is our grog standard for affecting yearly savings.
Would this do what I want it to, i.e. allow finesse roll/2 savings per year, or something similar?
You could have a walled garden and use target structure... that should be about 1000 plants at a time, or 1000 sq paces of plants, and you could add magnitudes for a larger structure. or of course you can use group with added magnitudes to affect larger areas, or simply cast a lot of low magnitude spells...
in terms of finesse, I think we are overthinking this. Spells always work as intended, finesse is only required for quality workmanship. Harvesting simply doesn't depend on quality. Instead of basing it on workmen's contribution we can assess it on a plant/crop per crop basis, as well as the area affected.
maintenance benefits by spell and caster:
Talus: The Invisible Glass-Worker, finesse+per 14+2+3+4, may be cast with the following min/max combinations (per casting), depending on finesse roll and desired quality:
.088/23-> quality bonus +5
3.33/20-> quality bonus +4
8.5/17-> quality bonus +3
14-> quality bonus +2
higher bonus qualities are possible, but with the possibility of failed rolls max benefit is currently 3.8 lbs/yr, additional 'savings' may be banked for future years- will add to building costs for storage and will not always provide 100% coverage (will roll each year for % mismatch and breakage depending on quantity stored and demanded)
Talus: Mystical Carpenter, finess+per 14+2+3+4- limited (by wood quantity) to 1 month work per casting.
productivity per production/casting:
.48/2.08-> quality bonus +5
1.83-> quality bonus +4
higher bonuses are possible with the possibility of failed rolls, maintenance is limited as per the house rule, and cannot be warehoused. limited to 4.45 lbs/yr (currently)
Talus: hide to Parchment, finess+per 14+1+3+4 - limited by scale to 1 season work/casting
savings/production per casting:
.0846/11 -> quality bonus +5
3.166/9.5 -> quality bonus +4
8-> quality bonus +3
higher bonuses are possible with a risk of failure maintenance is limited to 6 lbs per year, may be warehoused with losses and ineffeciencies
Binding the Hermetic Codex: this does not directly save money, and each casting binds a single book. This is considered artwork, with an AQ of 14+1+3+4-3=19, though as always with magical creation of art it cannot be studied for learning the craft. It does add the usual +1 SQ to the book for being bound.