The problem with your suggestion is that we do have full stats of magi, like Falke from GotF or Nikola from TtA, who canonically cast high-level Rituals every year (with dire repercussions should they fail). And they sport no Mastery, no Gold Cord, no botch-reducing Virtues.
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I agree that that is suspicious.
Now I do not think that magi are able to gauge the botch risk accurately. Falke, casting a 12th magnitude ritual once per year, may make a botch every 20 years and a double botch every 40 years on average, but she probably does not know. When the first double botch comes up, it is just bad luck. When the second double botch comes up, it was probably time to pass he mantle on anyway.
Ritual healers is a different kettle of fish. They may well cast rituals a dozen times within a year. and within a decade, they would have botched a dozen times on average, including several double botches. If these magi do not have any botch reducing traits I would be really suspicious,
Someone gently reminded me it doesn't apply for rituals done through a wizard's vigil because of penetration, which is typically the case for an Aegis - you would need several Mercurians to reduce the vis cost.
I do think that sources of frequent botches would be widely known in the Order. Most magi would have a sense that no matter how cautiously you cast fatiguing spontaneous magic, you'll lose control (i.e. botch) once every several dozen castings. Similarly, if Rituals always involved a ton of botch dice except for those magi who are exceptionally careful, diligent in mastering them etc. it should be widely known that you can't expect to cast a high-level ritual a score times without losing control. Remember that we see the abstraction of the die roll, but a magus has a much better sense of what the risks are, when he almost botched etc. (incidentally, Falke would botch every 13-14 castings, not every 20).
Well, in AtT there's Monica Ierne of Tremere, a "combat maga" who specializes in Cr,Re,Co,Te (and thus knows multiple healing rituals). I think she's a good case because as a Tremere Archmage and Legata vis certainly isn't her limiting factor, and at her age (90) and warping score (6(10)) she has a bunch of Mastered spells and a fair incentive to try to avoid Twilight. But she has no Mastery score in Rituals (or botch-reducing Virtues).
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To some extent, yes, but the, they are clumsy and I can do better attitude is not to be neglected.
To begin with I don't think the mathematics of the time would support the kind of statistical analysis that we are applying, but I do think magi would have the general sense of how likely botches were, and most especially how dangerous, and that both of these would scale with the power of the ritual involved.
I think we also need to step back here a moment and acknowledge that the game designers and authors are also fallible, and that people wo are thinking about ways to tell an interesting story for a game may not always catch the long term statistical implications of their mechanisms. Personally until something else comes forth I plan to use my house rule above, where being involved in the exact same ritual repeatedly (same target for the same basic effect every time) will make botches less likely- it does not change the storytelling dynamics but patches the long term implications. I do think I will allow the same special circumstances expertise to apply to essentially the same spell at differing magnitudes as well.
This just sounds like spell mastery with extra steps..
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In short, /agree with Ezzelino.
So, I see the base being "ritual casting is stressfull, with lots of botch dices, and this occurs frequently enough".
I believe this has a nice side effect, in that it makes ritual a bigger deal, something you don't do lightly, and thus, decrease the likelihood of stat-boosting rituals being widely used.
Now, because I don't think it is fun to play, I also believe there should be a way for dedicated players to massively decrease, if not cancel, the botch dices.
As noted, the primary way, IMO, should be Mercurian Magic, who (still IMO) would welcome the added utility. It just needs to be changed so that only the lead caster needs the virtue.
As a test, if we have a lvl 50 Aegis. That's 10 botch dices. Cut to 5 by MM. A gold cord + mastery of 3 is enough to put them down to 2. I'd say mission accomplished.
Now, looking at Mastery.
I'd say we would need something like
Ritual Caster: When casting a ritual, decrease the botch dices due to the Vis used by your Mastery level.
So, someone with FFM and gold cord 2 could start all rituals with -2 -1 (mastery) - 1 (ritual mastery) = -4 botch dices. Enough for most starting magi with their Aegis.
If investing 1 season on Mastery (same as our Mercurian above), these go to -2 -2 (mastery level) -2 (ritual caster) = -6. Not as good as MM for casting the Aegis, but this is a feature, not a bug.
Note that changing Ritual Caster to, say "*Decrease botch dices from Vis by 2 each time this virtue is taken" is also quite efficient. decrease by 3 if you want.
In short: The above may be messy, but the idea is to make MM better for rituals (ideally, better than FFM), give mastery options for rituals AND allow players to not worry (much) about botching
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It relates, but its hyper-focused, doesn't generate the 'special effects' of mastery, does not aid the casting itself, and very significantly does not require seasons of study to achieve, and with very simple planning can make passing the torch for such spells quite safe while at the same time allowing aegis botches to be a potential source of storytelling for a young covenant.
Basically every time you cast a ritual spell on a specific target you get one level of ritual experience (spell) (target) such that each successive time you cast that spell on that target you would reduce the botch dice you roll in the case you roll a zero by 1. This experience is also gained by anyone supporting the casting with a wizards vigil or related spell.
Pointing out things like "None of the Magi in the books have Spell Mastery in Rituals" is more an example of things that the game designers did not think about/calculate out. There are lots of things in RAW, some going all the way back to the 1st edition, which when actually calculated out do not make sense or line up with the actual mechanics.
The actual lifespan of Magi should be on average 20~30 years longer than by RAW by the mechanics, with the accepted average having been in place mostly since the first edition. Also the most common form of death would switch from Final Twilight to Failed Longevity Ritual side effects.
The ratio of Gifted to non-Gifted should be better than the 1:10k that it has been since at least 2nd edition. At that ratio there is not enough Gifted to support the current population of the Order and other groups which require Gifted individuals without some drastic changes (the Order setting up a specific task force focused on mass testing and collecting of Gifted children across all of ME). A 1:5k ratio would be enough to allow the current "culture as written" for the gaining of Gifted children to use as an apprentice.
The vast number of "Special Snowflake" groups in the Order is such that most of them could only support a hand full of members, if half of the total Order was a member of a "Special Snowflake" group. So in most games 90% of them do not exist.
Yes many of these things date back to older editions, but they are things in which the mathematics was never worked out. The fact that Order wide there are many Rituals cast on a regular basis which would result in a whole mess of botches under the current rules was never worked out before published Magi were created and so none of them are designed to avoid the botches in the least.
Ars Magica is not alone in games in which the "Crunch" does not match the "Fluff" when played out, resulting in pre-made characters/NPCs which are not very good. Many game designers know this is common and do not provide stats for NPCs other than cannon fodder.
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That's 10 botch dice for the vis, plus whatever your storyteller deems to be the regular number of botch dice that the situation calls for. As the ritual is outdoors and cast on the winter solstice, the weather could play a factor and increase that with snow / wind, for example. Also the Aegis is typically only good as it's penetration, and casters rarely can pull off a level 50 aegis with 50 penetration on their own, even with magical focus. Which means they need to turn to Wizard's Vigil, which will increase the number of botch dice by the number of participants, and will make the Mercurian magic virtue impotent since most covenants will rarely have 3-5 Mercurian on hand for the virtue to apply - it explicitly fails to reduce vis requirements for rituals cast with a vigil unless everyone has the virtue. Of course, the virtue is very helpful on level 20 aegis rituals.
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I think that the most parsimonious change that makes everything work is to remove the text on p.81:
The magnitude of Ritual spells, and the need to incorporate many elements, mean that they are always cast using a stress die.
possibly adding for clarity, immediately after the Ritual Casting Total formula above, the note:
The type of die rolled depends on the situation, as with Formulaic spells.
Then:
- Suddenly it makes sense that the Ritual Casting Total formula includes a "Die Roll" like the formula for Formulaic magic, rather than a "stress Die" like the formula for fatiguing Spontaneous magic.
- Suddenly the subsequent passage about vis use makes perfect sense: "Remember that, if the maga can cast the spell under calm conditions, she can use a simple die and thus avoid the possibility of botching".
- Suddenly there is no more ambiguity in the passage about Mastery: "Mastered spells are always cast with a stress die, but if the maga is relaxed there are no botch dice, even in a non-magic aura or when using vis."
- It suddenly makes sense that magi in the Order routinely use the Aegis and other Rituals without assuming foolhardiness on their part, or assuming that all the Rituals are cast by a minority of "invisible hands" who pile up all the right Virtues for the task.
- It suddenly makes sense that published magi that canonically recast powerful Rituals every year (e.g. Falke from GotF, Nikola from TtA) have no Mastery score in those Rituals - nor other botch-reducing Virtues.
- The mechanics are suddenly reconciled with the canonical absence of frequent magical disasters; for example, it is no longer incredible that Durenmar has remained uninterruptedly shielded by its current, mighty Aegis since the late 11th century.
- Flawless Magic does not get boosted further.
- Many Ritualist character concepts, like healers and theurgists, become more viable.
- Troupes that want stories from miscast Rituals can still have them, and can control more precisely when they happen, by explicitly narrating something that interrupts the casting of a Ritual. Troupes who do not want to be saddled with miscast Rituals can get the game they want too.
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Yes it is changing 2 lines, it is also a massive change to the rules.
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I shall try to summarise.
First, there seems to be a consensus that Mastered, relaxed Rituals should not have botch dice. I will shift the errata wording to make that clear.
There is then further debate over whether that fixes the perceived problems, makes Mercurian Magic too weak, is consistent with canon, and so on.
It is possible to errata Mastery scores onto published magi who "ought" to have them, and errata books into libraries. This wrinkle was not a conscious decision based on how the authors and line editor thought magi should look.
Mercurian Magic could get the addition that you roll no botch dice for Rituals when relaxed, even if you haven't Mastered them. That would mean that a Mercurian leader could avoid botching for an entire covenant.
Ezzelino's suggestion is not out of the question, but it is a major change to the rules. I'm not inclined to do that in the absence of a strong consensus in its favour — and I am not seeing that in the tone of the discussion.
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I'm somewhat curious why that would be so big a change from the baseline is "Mastery 1 + relaxed = no botch dice" (I'll call that baseline Minimal Mastery or MM for brevity). I think it produces a significantly cleaner outcome, and that's why I advocate it, but the game-balance/setting impact seems fairly minor.
If you take MM as a baseline, allowing Rituals to just use simple die in relaxed situations is clearly less of a bonus than giving out a free Mastery 1 in every Ritual a magus knows. In fact, under MM a single Mastery 1 (adaptive casting) is all that's needed to "unbotch" all Similar spells, e.g. every Aegis.
So, for the vast majority of magi I see, either published or in my games, simple-die Rituals is a bonus worth less than ... three Mastery 1 at most? That in turn is 15xp scrounged from stories/exposure, or at most 3 study seasons in abysmal study environments (without any books, away from the lab, in a hostile Aura etc.). It seems much less of a bonus than ... correspondence from Covenants, say.
The only magi who'd benefit more significantly would be those who specialize in Rituals, and who are not already covered by some other Virtue like Flawless Magic or the proposed "updated" Mercurian Magic. I think those poor Ritualists need all the help they can get, because it's clear that players tend to shun them as playable characters and instead "outsource" what they do to npc specialists. But even for them the resulting bonus would be on par with a Minor Virtue. Why do you see it as major change?
No, the baseline is "non-mastered rituals always have a (usually significant) chance of botching"
With your change, rituals cast in relaxed situations would have no chance of botching.
That is a pretty big change.
Compared to allowing mastery to remove botch-chance for relaxed rituals can also be considered a significant change, since mastering every ritual a magus knows (which is needed to be equivalent) could take many valuable seasons that could have been spent on other things.
I was clearly too concise. Let me get this straight.
The current consensus appears to be:
a) In a relaxed situation, Mastery 1 removes all botch dice from Ritual casting.
I claim that compared to a), it's only a minor change to have;
b) In a relaxed situation, even without Mastery, roll a simple die for Ritual casting.
Obviously. b) gives an advantage compared to a). But how big?
Strictly smaller than giving one "free" Mastery 1 for every set of similar Rituals a magus knows.
That's because if you have a Mastery 1 (adaptive casting) in a Similar Ritual, in a relaxed situation you can just roll a botchless stress die +1, and that's strictly better than rolling a simple die. In fact, if you think you are not going to learn a similar Ritual, you can instead get some other neat Mastery ability instead of adaptive casting. And if you already have a free Mastery 1 (from Flawless magic, or the proposed revised Mercurian Magic) or some other way to reduce botch dice to 0, then b) yields no advantage at all over a).
So the question is: how many (sets of Similar) Rituals does your typical magus know?
I claimed that, for 90% of the published magi (and magi in my games too) that's no more than three.
So allowing b) gives you an advantage that, for 90% of magi, lies between no advantage at all and 15xp in spell mastery. Which in turn, is certainly worth no more than 3 seasons, possibly (probably?) less. That does not appear "significant" to me.
For that small fraction of magi who know many (sets of Similar) Rituals, and have no other ways to bring botch dice to 0, it's going to be somewhat more significant. But I claim that 1) it's good to help those character concepts, because players seem to consider them sub par and 2) it's probably worth no more than a Minor Virtue to them anyways (this is, admittedly, somewhat eyeballed).
I hope that was clearer!
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The thing is, a) is not a consensus, it is a proposed major alteration of the rules which has some support. What you propose is a far more radical alteration of the rules. I believe even introducing a as a change would require a massive reconsideration of Ballance and what other rules it might impact, and yet you are treating it as the baseline from which to go even further. As currently written ritual spells are always stress dice due to complexity of the ritual, not due to the situation of casting. Mastery is at least a balancing point, but it is not the only conceivable one to make habitual massive rituals safer- there is the house rule I suggested above, it is also possible that botch dice can be reduced by additional participants in the ritual (though I would suggest this should also require more time if employed, otherwise it is very counterintuitive), such that the fluff of the aegis being a day long ritual involving the entire covenant would gain some crunch without significant alterations to the setting. Neither of these options would begin to support your moving the goalpost from really big change to truly massive change in the rules.
... support from the publishers, promising an official erratum, and alleged seeming consensus. Sorry, we are a marginalised minority.
But yes, from there to allowing botch-free rituals also without mastery is a leap.
I don't assume that the fact that the vast majority of the posts in the thread are on topic to be an indicator of a widespread consensus. I hope the publishers will consider multiple mechanisms to correct the mathematical oversite, though I fear I will be disappointed in that they will likely choose the fastest band aid over trying to determine the best.