Maximum Parma Magica during creation

Games Discussion Ars Magica
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Greetings Gentlefolk,

Immovable Object: The hard limit of PM1 at character creation.

Unstoppable(?) Force: Affinity with Parma Magica.

What of a character at creation with the virtue Affinity Parma Magic? There's a conflict of two RAW, the limit of only 1 point of Parma and the relaxation of limits with the virtue, allowing up to 2 points more in any ability at creation. This could create a character with PM3 at game start, potentially PM5 if combined with Puissant Parma Magica.

Would folk be inclined to allow/deny/sanction this, for either the character of its Parens? I can see a particularly observant/astute apprentice actually having a functioning Parma before swearing the oath, but once the oath is sworn, no residual problem.

A saga or apprentices would require dark secret (or similar) for the apprentice. What other requirements might be appropriate for such a character in an "ordinary" saga?

Thoughts,please.

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There is no conflict.
Affinity with (Ability) increases only the age-based limits for starting characters. It has no effect on other limits.

There is no hard cap on the starting score of Parma Magica.
On the contrary, the core rule book says that "Very few magi have a score in Parma Magica over 1 immediately after apprenticeship, as this Ability is the last thing taught." which implies that there are some magi who have a higher score immediately after apprenticeship.

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Apart from what Erik says, every rule is flexible in principle - this is roleplaying after all - but the more you want to flex it, the better the story has to be. And do you want to run a few stories where the magi are very vulnerable to magic before they raise PM?

Personally, I would not be overly upset if a magus starts with PM 2, arguing that the parens took the last season to formally teach PM. SQ 10 + the benefit of the affinity is enough and not at all unreasonable. Pushing it to 3 would be considerably more extraordinary, and the more the player wants to detail the parens to explain it, the more plot hooks I will draw from that parens.

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Not much flex necessary to get a 2 with Affinity with Parma Magica, no, if the last season of apprenticeship was spent instructing it.

Basic SQ for Teaching is Com + Teaching +3.

Com -2 is mildly extraordinary in the wrong direction. The previous 14 seasons of Teaching a magus's very first apprentice is itself worth 28 XP from exposure, so the instructor easily has a Teaching of 2 (even if they divert almost half that XP to improving the language of instruction), and a Specialty applicable to the student he got 100% of his teaching experience from instructing is reasonable ("one-to-one" is canonical in Covenants, on p.43). Which means we're now at (-2+2+1+3=) 4, and then there's a +6 for one-on-one instruction that should apply to any apprenticeship-qualified instruction season. So that's a SQ of 10 from a teacher who started the apprenticeship with zero Teaching, awful Com, and no applicable Virtues.

A 2 without Affinity is slightly more flex, but not that much. Getting a total of 6 from Com, Teaching, Teaching specialty, Virtues, and lab specialization isn't all that hard (the basic formula +3 and the one-on-one instruction +6 bringing that 6 up to SQ 15).

A 3, with Affinity, needs an SQ of 20. [EDIT: Well, 19, really, and round up, right?] Now you're talking a teacher with a Com, Teaching, specialty, Virtue, and lab bonuses that combine to +11 [+10], which will indicate some degree of actually notably good instructor for a magus. But not all that much. If you spent a Virtue on Skilled Parens, I would actually consider it explained.

A 3 without Affinity, now you're talking someone with PC levels of task-specialization, to get 21 out of Com, Teaching, specialty, Virtues, and lab.

But let's consider such a PC specialist.

Affinity with Teaching minor Virtue, and 60 seasons of exposure to Teaching (three previous apprentices, 14 previous seasons with this apprentice, and one other season along the way somewhere) works out to 180 XP in Teaching for an 8. "One-to-one" specialty is another +1, bringing us to 9. Com 5 (improved with ritual magic in play), the Good Teacher minor Virtue (+5), and a Teaching-optimized lab (Gallery and Palatial for +3) get us to 22, we add the standard +9, and we have a Source Quality of 31, able to teach an average student Parma Magica 3 in one season of instruction.

Add Puissant Teaching to push to 33, and our student with an Affinity in Parma Magica can go from 0 to 50 XP, for a score of 4, in one season, under this instructor.

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And I suppose there's room for magi who live by the philosophy of "if I don't get caught, it's legal", and who may have taught the Parma Magica even early on, to protect the apprentice in the field without sharing their own parma magica. This has never included any of my Tytalus characters, despite what their apprentices may claim.

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True. Every Saga can set the paranoia levels.

It ranges from a setting where the Order is cosy and has all ennemies in their corner and the risk of them learning the Parma and the order being challenged seems so far fetched that sending an apprentice negotiate with those lesser traditions with him having knowledge of Parma is fine.

On the other spectrum we have an order that is challenged in the North by the Order of Odin, in the East by the Dragons of Khan, in the south by the Order of Suleiman and in the West by the Rise of the Atlanteans. If any of them were to learn universal magic resistance, the Order would face serious challenges. As such, all writings of the parma can only be found in the Domus Covenants. Teaching Parma to an apprentice is a serious crime. Whoever shares Parma is responsible for it's care meaning if a Magi that has Parma is missing, it is expected that his teacher resolves the issues one way or another.

After playing quite a few campaigns, games with lower Parma tend to be easier to SG and more fun for the players...

W

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I'm starting to wonder if the Parma really is taught over a season. Given it's 1-on-1 teaching, from somebody who has just spent 15 seasons practicing Teaching, you'd expect a score of 1 (5) or more.

The alternative is that it's more like an initiation, maybe not needing a season, but that grants you the insight and a starting score of 1, just as if someone initiates into a Supernatural Virtue with an associated ability.

This would be consistent with something that must be true, that you can't learn the Parma just by watching someone doing it. But there are other possible explanations for that.

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It is usually not taught as such. Apprentices learn it through exposure, all but the final part which is taught once the apprentice has passed their Gauntlet and sworn the Oath of Hermes.

Invoking a personal Parma
Magica is the last thing an appren-
tice character learns, receiving the
final key instructions after swear-
ing the Oath of Hermes to her
master. Few parentes take the time
to teach Parma Magica, expecting
the apprentice to learn it through
exposure. The apprentice is regu-
larly included in the parens’ Parma
Magica ceremony, and as he shares
his Parma Magica, the apprentice
watches and mimics the parens. All
the while, the parens holds back
knowledge of the finishing gestures
and verbal components, that last bit
of information that will allow the
apprentice to invoke his own Parma
Magica. Mechanically, the player
records the number of Exposure
experience points spent on Parma
Magica on his character sheet, tal-
lying it up just like any other Abil-
ity. However, his character will not
be able to perform Parma Magica
until the final key instruction is giv-
en. Usually, an apprentice character
finishes apprenticeship with a score
of 1 in Parma Magica.
Apprentices p61

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Thanks all. Being predisposed to munchkinery, although I make attempts to minimise this tendency, I liked the detail on getting to PM3 with teaching and affinity.

Thank you all again.

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Keep in mind story opportunity.
I restrict Parma at start of a Saga, to have opportunity to run story with low power faeries (Faerie might of 5 to 15). Once Parma hits 3+, such story can only be run with companions and grogs, and at most one magi.
It is a measure to keep thing interestingly challenging, without having to resort to bigger guns or contrived shenanigans.

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