Merinita permanents charms and physical objects involved in

(sorry for the mistakes, english is not my native langague)

I was looking about Merinita Charms in HoH:MC and was thinking about something:

The rules say that Charms " Can be physical objects, like sculptures or drawings; or performances, like songs or stories; or even arcane pronouncements or ceremonies, like prophecy or naming"

And just after that, "permanent charms, take several hours, and must involve a special object that the maga wields when she activates the charm, incorporating the object into the effect"

In the examples below the charms and folk mysteries sections, charms are always presented with physical objects who are "support of the charm": Poems written on vellum for example, the vellum is the special object needed and the poem is written on it, magi will need to read it to activate the charm.

The magi will need to read the poem while casting the spell (which seems for me like a performance magic and i wonder then if a Merinita would need it or not in cases like that, but it's not what i wanted to ask first)

And as the rule says, the physical object need to be involved in the charm to activate it, and i was thinking then "Did the object really need to be the support of the charm itself ? what kind of object could support a charm if the charm is a dance, for example ?"

And then, i come to conclusion that physical objects who are involved in permanent charms could be specific objects needed for the charm, but not the physical support.
Like music instruments for musics,
or specifics accessories for dance,
or even puppets for stories narrated by puppet show.

But i don't really know if i'm right or if i miss something and would like some opinions.
So, is charms always needed to be physicial objects, or the objects involved in a charm need to be the support of the charm itself ?

No - the only times a charm MUST be physical is :

  1. You are using a Story charm - you need an object to hold the charm (story magic, page 98)

  2. you are using the Symbolic Magic mystery for Symbol duration - so a spell that only lasts as long as the poem does needs to have a physical copy written down. (box on page 99)

Basic charm magic says you can either perform the charm or use an object for the charm:
"she must either create the temporary charm at the time of casting or have the object associated with a permanent charm at hand. When casting spells with the charms described above, she might tell a story about a person called Darius, or draw a picture that depicts winter, or whittle a stick into the shape of an axe, or play a song that suggests the color red."

So you can create a wide range of charms, but non-physical ones need performing every time - so each time you cast a spell and want to use a charm, you could sing the song or do a dance, or you could just hold the object of a permanent charm.

What sort of things do you want to do with charm magic? If you can give an example, I'm sure there are many people who can talk through the way it can work.

You talk about the Charm Magic Mystery. As i understand it (maybe i'm wrong), it say you can create a temporary charm or have a permanent charm at hand.
I see temporary charm doesn't need a physical object, but it seems permanent charms need it, since they clearly say you need to involve a special object into the charm.

Does that mean you can't create permanent charms if they are not physical in some ways (songs, stories, or dance) ?
The examples further in the book talk about a song as a permanent charm since it's written, but a song isn't something really physical. The only thing physicial about it is that it's written, but you need to sing it to activate the charm.

Also, i talk about the charms for a Merinita who don't have folk mysteries yet.

Oh you mean like Charms in the box on page 88? You can make a temporary charm that can be used once by spending ten minutes, or spend several hours to create a permanent charm. For one-use temporary charms to boost a spell, they can be a performance (song, story, dance, whatever) or a physical object. Permanent charms must be object.

I thought you meant like the ones from the virtues. The example on page 98 of the Mari representing her act of trickery as a crown, and then writing a poem about it, and then later she puts on the crown and spends confidence to activate it suggests that the Story Magic virtue needs you to use a physical representation of some form, no matter what art you use to create the charm.

Yeah, i was thinking at charms at the base. Folk Mysteries devellop that, but my player don't have it yet (since the game just started).

My question was about the fact that permanent charms seems to must be not just a special object, but the support of the charm (the drawing of a picture, the song written on vellum, etc...).
Cause as the rules in the box page 88 says it must "involve a specific object", i was wondering if the object could be something other than the support. Like if, instead of writting a song to do a permanent charm, you could choose to craft a panpipe and say "it's my panpipe specific to play my charm song of "Lifting the Dangling Puppet"