Might stripping, permanent and deadly or not?

What effect do you think might stripping should achieve

  • Might is permanently reduced, if might reaches zero death
  • Might is permanently reduced, if might reaches zero the creature can exist further without magic except demon types which are banished
  • Might is reduced but can recover, if might reaches zero death
  • Might is reduced but can recover, if might reaches zero the creature can exist further without magic except demon types which are banished

0 voters

Opening the question from:

The debate there is about the effect of PeVi on creatures of might from whichever domain. Does might lost this way ever recover? What happens if the might is reduced to zero? Part of the reason for this debate is that demons are known to be banished when hitting might zero, but not permanently dead, just punished in hell.

Considering how many creatures of magic, indeed player allies this could apply to it is an important question. It effects familiars and Merinita who have become, Bjornaer who have lost their human form, as well as all the other magi who take on a might for immortality.

If might loss is permanent, I personally regard that as hugely unbalanced. Any other attack form of a similar might does damage a target can heal from if it survives. Any target that is incapacitated but not finished can recover. For PeVi spells to achieve a permanent damage that cannot be soaked, if it breaches your resistance that is it, makes it so much more deadly than any other type of magic for the same power level of spell.

I guess the answer is "it depends". There can be no hard and fast rule that applies to every being that has Might, and I am loathe to actually push for one: it is too constraining.

Now, I seem to remember having read somewhere (though most probably in ArM4 or earlier) that a damaged Might score recovered in the same way as expended Might points: if after 24h, the creature was still alive, it recovered its full Might. That obviously may not be applicable to all creatures/spirits/whatever. In ArM4's Blood and Sand, one of the jinns is presented as being once mighty :unamused: but had fallen on hard times and was now much reduced.

Anyway, in ArM5, there are strong hints that a creature whose Might falls to 0 may not be destroyed. Take for example the Verditius mystery that allows a magus to leech Might off a creature. A fully drained creature is left with a Might of 0. Still technically magical, but unable to use any powers that requires a Might expenditure.

I think things really need to be adjudicated on a case-by-case basis. For most creatures, Might should eventually recoved. The pace will vary depending on the creature and the needs of the story: a creature that recovers from damage overnight if it hasn't been destroyed is much scarier than one that never does. Another might lie in wait for a few decades until it is back into shape and strike again once it has been forgotten by mortals.

Similarly, what happens when its Might reaches zero should be left for the players to decide rather than be fixed by the rules. Some creatures may be destroyed, some be left incapacitated (permanently or not), some merely unable to use powers that need Might expenditure, some others unable to use any of their powers at all. There is an official ruling for demons, but that's about it.

That's one of the downsides of having Might. Immortality carries its own risks. At that level, I don't really think we can speak about "unbalance": your magus is immortal, for crying out loud. You might as well complain about grogs not being as powerful as magi.

I have not voted. I agree with all and none of the above, because I do not think that they are mutual exclusive cathegories, but rather that it depends...

I certainly agree with Fruny - but stated my arguments in the original thread. I also find it a bit scary how we even emphasized the same wording in our simultaneous postings! :open_mouth:

I seem to remember something similar - but all the places I have looked it up says so of Might Points and nothing on the Score.

I agree that the possible variation in possibiliy or speed of regaining the Score is just as opening for diverse stories as whether they die or can stay alive.

I have also noticed that both the PeVi and the PeMe spells of this kind are purposefully vague on this. The ghost might disappear as its Might reaches zero, but who can really know where it has gone or what that signifies...

Take an example of a faerie of might 20, soak of 7 and total wounds of 18 like the wolf from the core book. Against him you have either a magus wielding CrIg casting Pilum of Fire with a casting total of 40. Or a magus with a custom designed PeVi at level 20 against fae also with casting total of 40. Both easily achieved by magi not far out of gauntlet

Both spells penetrate the creatures might. One will instantly strip it of all might, the other will probably wound it severly and it can then try to fight back or escape, but is unlikely to die with a single hit.

My view is that a lvl 20 spell of one art should be just as effective overall as another lvl 20 spell designed for roughly the same purpose. Thus by bypassing all soak the PeVi is that much more effective than the attack spell, which is fair because it targets only one type of monster. To add that the damage cannot be healed, and that if that damage is full it is instant death, was what I saw as unbalanced.

This was meant to be an argument in favour of might stripping being non fatal and being able to be recovered from.

My view on this would be that the PeVi spell renders it mundane so you'll not get as much/any vis from it's corpse, CrIg kills it while magical so you can get the vis.

I view Might Score reduction (like DEO) as inflicting Wounds on Might.

Where normal Power use reduces Might Points from a pool refreshed over 24 hrs, loss of Might Score is as permanent as a Wound - it won't recover quickly, and may never fully recover, but it may heal given a congenial environment.

Creatures whose existence derives from Might are usually Destroyed by being reduced to Might 0, but they may be Banished instead. (And with Might 0 probably can't return in any great hurry), those where Might is a Spiritual Power within a Living creature - eg a Beast Of Virtue, then total loss of Might Score renders them close to mundane - largely powerless. Some properties (eg dragon touchness) may be magical but innate, and not lost by loss of Might Score (eg those which are "always on")

Further, some Might Score loss is truly permanent - if made as a sacrifice (as certain Mystery Virtues allow - eg Living Ghost) there is no natural way to recover sacrificed Might -thought the LG can repeat rituals to increase Might, to get back to a similar score..

I totally agree with caribet, except for certain cases such as ghosts who cannot be so easily banished, and keep returning until their "story" is done.

At minimum there are 3 sorts of Magically Mighted Creatures

Incorporeal/Inhabiting: Like spirits, some demons and angels, elementals, their spirit is either unteathered or only holds some tenous connection to whatever they're animating. When their might is gone so are they. Most are destoryed in everyway that matters, like a demon tossed back into hell at the lowest rung on the ladder.

Corporeal: Like magical beasts. Like a magus with a damaged gift they can continue on physically, maybe just fine except for their lack of Might to power their magic. I think the loss of Magic Might (as opposed to the Pool) is an after thought in the game, and I've seen no actual rules any where on this (just a sentence in the new updated Eratta).

Those that don't fit: Any of the other two who have special rules about exactly what happens when they are reduce to 0 acutal Might. Like Ghosts.

The most likely creature for us to actually worry about might returning are familiars. According to the rules, familiars must be creatures with inherant magic and are likely to have might. I can foresee familiars getting slammed with a might reduction, and as they are likely to have very little might they will probably hit 0 after the first spell. This might even be done as a prank by a tytalus during a tribunal. The familiar bond will probably be deadened until the might starts to regrow, all powers stop, and possibly even bad effects to the magi who is bonded to it.

It kind of makes kidnapping a familiar to use as an arcane focus against the magi much more practical. All the magi feels is the link go dead without any pain from the familiar, he can't sense them. Panic ensues.


That'd be TMRE p. 135, referring to magi who have gained a Might score as part of their immortality.

Of course, just to keep the waters sufficiently muddy, this only provides the RAW interpretation for magi who have followed one of these immortality paths. It doesn't touch on magi who have used Becoming to become faeries (though I'd probably interpret that the same way), or for any other mystical being.

Personally, I'd prefer Might-bearing creatures to be able to regain their lost Might scores, though I'd originally ruled this on a point-per-day basis, rather than the "all lost Might score after a day" basis in TMRE. This keeps spells such as DEO sufficiently painful for those creatures who survive it, without totally neutering their capabilities if they manage to flee before being destroyed.

I'm somehow convinced I read something like that in an earlier edition, possibly as far back as Mistridge or the Pact of Pasaquine.


Why not let the rules be a guide for this...

The first 50% of the Total Might damage is treated as light wounds
The next 25% are treated as medium wounds
The final 25% are treated as Heavy Wounds.
Light wounds are treated on an Hourly basis.
Medium wounds are treated on a Daily basis
Heavy wounds are treated on a weekly basis.

-ie if a Creature with 20 might, takes damage, the first 10 are treated like light wounds. Roll once an hour for each point until the first 50% are recovered. Roll once a day for each Medium 'wound' point. Roll once a week for each Heavy 'wound' point.

This way, the creature will get an infusion of points right off, but won't recover right away. This could also be a reason to take 'Rapid Convalescence' for a creature..
A little labor intensive, but a few rolls isn't too bad.

My ten pawns worth.

Urien's idea isn't bad... but I would make recovery a little longer or else you fight a big monster, you run after striping a huge part of his might but you had to fall back since you weren't able to shred his corpse as well. Your party is heavily wounded.... he'll recover most of his stats in 1 month while your party will take at least a season maybe 2? I would just put the recovery as long... mind don't necessarly heal quicker than the body

Quite true....but then you ARE Magus...

Creo Corpus with a little Vis and you are all set...

The creature in question doesn't get that in most cases...

Failure carries a price...