"If I, as a Christian, believe that Jesus is of one being with God, if separate persons, then why would it be offensive to a Muslim to include Allah in that arrangement as well? I hear many claim that Allah and Jehovah are the same God, so if I am to believe this, and believe that Jesus is of one being, then would Jesus and Allah not also be of one being? Either Allah is of one being with Jehovah or he is not. If he is not, then why would Muslims insist that we worship the same God? But while Jesus and the Father are of one being they are also separate persons, Jehovah did not die on the cross, Jesus did. I am merely suggesting that if Allah and Our Holy Father are indeed of one being then they may well also be separate persons."
MIquel ignores the theological discussion, but grimaces at the idea that Saracens are something that do not deserve to be run through with a sword. He keeps his thoughts to himself, though; better not to call much attention to Brother's reputation among Saracens and other infidels. However, he really looks up and puts up a “WTF?” face when he hears Roberto talking about a watery tart being her girlfriend and stuff. F*ck, now this guy will expect us to drown to assist to his underwater wench's wedding or some other farcical aquatic ceremony. Or cast us some of those spells that make us grown horns or turns or skin purple afterwards. Damned magi, always messing around. He thinks for himself.
After a while he is sitting in the dock controlling the loaded ship. He is always charged with such bad chores. At least he feels like it. And it is always the big guys who are to blame. Making the life of the poor grogs miserable. Damned bastards. Roberto seemed to be nice, but then he ended being a usual prepotent boss, like everybody else. Like Arnau. At least Ximo brought him some herbes, fish stew and bread. Grogs know who to stick with.
This is Adan, the nigh-undead heretic scribe, right? Just wanna make sure I am keeping track.
Roberto struggles for clarity through his buzz 
[color=red]Can you evn hear th nonshense comin outta your mouth? That makes, it makes no sense. Allah ain't a name. It is the word God innanother language. You're like sayin' "what if Diety and God were separate peoples?". An thats no comprende.
And you got the whole thing wrong. God iz not a buncha separate people. Thats what the pagans do. God manifests in different ways, but it'sa the same guy, same person, same God. Therez only one God.
Now if you exc, ekskus, pffft! Pardon me. If you pardon me. I need to get a good sllep nights. I want everyone sto'ort..., fff, to start gennin' up at dawn.
Ans with that he stumbles away.
Adan isn't nigh undead, that is Batholomeu. He is the borderline heretic failed monk scribe.
"In the unity of Gohead, there are three persons. This is doctrine. God is omnipotent, also doctrine, therefore if God wished to be more than three persons, He could be."
"Your belief runs into trouble with the Islam faith when you assert that Jesus is of one being with Allah," Bashir explains. "We believe that Jesus was but one of Allah's prophets, not the Son of God, as you Christians do. To imply that Jesus and Allah are one being is akin to you asserting that Abraham and Allah are one being. We also consider the Holy Spirit to be the angel Gabriel. To imply that an angel is of one being with Allah is also antithetical to our beliefs. In fact, the Qur'an specifically says 'They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.'[sup]1[/sup]"
"There can be no question as to how one of my faith would react to your assertion that Allah is somehow a part of your Christian Trinity. He would consider in blasphemy." Bashir pauses and adds. "I consider it blasphemy. I can accept that you have your faith and I have mine. But I would ask you not to speak that which is blasphemy in my faith, at least not in my presence."
"You argue like a pharisee of old," Bashir says. "But I think what matters to most Christians is not what God can do, but what God has done. According to your doctrine, though God is in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, He is one being. And while I am no expert, I believe that it would be considered heresy in Rome to propose that God is in four persons."
"I know you speak only as a matter of academic interest," Bashir continues. "But you should be careful of what you say and to whom you say it. I should hate to see you excommunicated for your musings."
Then Bashir turns to Roberto, happy for a distraction from this tehological conversation. "Your desired mate is a mermaid, you say?" He rubs his chin and ponders for a moment. "And you wonder about the children." He pauses as if struggling for words. "I don't mean to be indelicate," he says at last. "But I'm not certain how you would even get to that concern. It seems to me that your lady love would lack some of the -ah- prerequisites for having a child, or even trying to conceive one."
[hr][/hr]
Roll for Theology - Islam: 1d10+6=12
Bashir has a 2 in Theology - Islam, but a specialty in the Qur'an
Lucas stays with the captain for a little while, talking about the journey and what they can expect from it, nothing more important than that. He also speaks with the sailors and others, trying to get to know some of the others he will be traveling with. Having been blessed with a gentle Gift, Lucas has never known the difficulties that most other magi have with interpersonal contact.
Selim would have wandered off the minute the religious discussions began; discussions like that were boring and never ended well. He'll talk up an attractive woman or three if any are around.
[color=red]Okay, neither one of you know what you are talking about. I just defended yer $#!+ by emphacising that Alla is simply the word God in another language. And yeah, to us Christians, Jesus is the one and the same being as Allah, which means God. You wanna cry "oh blasphemy! They drew a cartoon of Mohommed!". Yet, to my ears, saying Allah and Jesus are not the same being, this is also blasphemy. And heathers make Jesus cartoons all the time. Do you see me getting up in arms about it? Jesus is not a prophet. Jesus is God in a mortal incarnate form. You don't believe that. Fine. I already said a man's relationship to God is his own business. But if you want people to respect what you think and say, you owe the same to everyone else, magus or scribe. You have a problem with muttonhead's warped theology here, or anyone else's speech, you let me know. I will handle it.
And you killed my buzz. Thanks a lot.
And I would like to point out that you don't know what you are talking about. Many merefolk have the power to assume a more human form. The princess and I have privately spoken our commitment and are betrothed. So we have, um, how to say? We have explored the logistics of our love.
I suppose mine is actually a question of Magic Lore, or maybe Faerie Lore. Not sure which yet. But a child of such union would, naturally, have Faerie or Magic Blood. But then again, it is the mother that has supernatural heritage. The child would have to be born and reared in her environment, developing a yearning to visit the land of his father when he matures. Like those old tales of Namoricus of Jerbiton. You wouldn't know who that is. Magus from back in the day.
It would be better the other way around. I need to convince the princess to return with me to the world of man. That's a good idea. Thanks for the advice doc :
Now, you chucklheads should hit the sack. We start getting ready at dawn.
Bashir gives a perplexed look at Roberto as the man goes off on his tirade. What had he said to deserve being berated in such a way? It was Adan who had continually pressed the religious debate, not him. He had merely answered the questions that Adan had posed to him out of politeness, and tried to explain to the man about Islam. He didn't think he had been proselytizing. In fact, Bashir had merely been trying to warn the man that his views were likely to get him in trouble with either his own church or Muslims in this area. For this he gets yelled at and called a blasphemer? Meanwhile Adan was treated as the innocent. The doctor takes a breath. Perhaps he did not understand Christians very well after all. And perhaps Roberto was right. He should keep his religion to himself and not allow himself to get drawn into questions of faith.
"You're right," Bashir replies as evenly as he can. "I should keep my religion to myself, and shall do so in the future."
"As for my comments about your lady love, I assure you I meant no disrespect. Perhaps I was too clinical in my response, and not as careful with your feelings as I should have been. And you are quite right. I don't know anything on the subject. To say my knowledge of mermaids is small is an understatement. Nonexistent is a better description. Your comment just now is the first inkling I had that they might take a human form. And that makes a great difference in the matter, I would imagine. With that knowledge, I would surmise that any children you had would either be fully human, or might inherit their mother's ability to change shape. As to the likelihood of either outcome..." he shrugs. "I have not enough knowledge to even hazard a guess. As you say, it is a question better asked of those with knowledge of magic or faeries, of which I know nothing."
Then Bashir rises and gathers his things. "I apologize if my comments caused offense," he says to Roberto as he prepares to depart. "I shall watch my tongue in the future and be more thoughtful in what I say."
Your comments and views are not the cause of offense. It is that you need to be just as tolorant of the views of others. Share your thoughts and ideas. Be free. But be careful calling ideas blasphemy when others could say the same about you. Now, I agree that this guy is a nut job. I am more sympathetic to your culture than his. You at least follow a tradition set out before you instead of making up your own religion as you go along. The guy is a heretic, but not a blasphemer. I don't think so. Not entirely sure, but as I keep saying that is between him and God and not me. Now, saying that Allah is a fourth participant in the Godhead, that's just crazy. I agree there. But saying that Christ is one and the same being as God, that is pretty orthodox and regular. This is something that I and every good Catholic also believes. You brushed past the crazy idea and called the orthodox idea blasphemy. I don't mind if you speak your views and even make a sales pitch. Feel free. I just draw the line at calling other people blasphemers. Is that how you want people to treat you? If they practice an infernal faith, that is entirely different. But working for the Order of Hermes, you will find a wide variety of faiths and you may be shocked by some. Many magi are Christian, but most who are hold a few unorthodox beliefs. Some are gnostics or heretics or just just have an English mindset for pragmatism. There's a lot of pagan magi too. Pagan. They worship Jupiter and Hermes and Aphrodite. Some follow barbarian old ways, nature deities and faeries and fertility cults. And most Tremere magi I have met strike me as almost atheist. As for Tytalus magi, I don't know why...
Never mind. Look, you will be barraged by a plethora of conflicting beliefs. Expect to receive what you give, and it is fair to give back what you get.
Roberto is verbose. He always has been. I apologize for that. But we should really all "get some sleep" and begin the "setting sail" phase of this.
OOC: Seems like everybody is sharp and alert instead of drunk as a skunk :mrgreen:
Quite modern views on religion here! I will have to say something with Miquel when he joins the party the next day...
As the others debate the appropriateness of conversation and the use of terms like blasphemy and heretic, Adan starts making notes in his little book. "If there are four, and one refuses to acknowledge the others, that may be why the 3 one split, and explains the earlier texts..." he mutters to himself.
Bashir was not drinking I do believe. Roberto was a little buzzed, but a combination of a strong Bronze Cord and lively discussion has killed that buzz. Antoni has long since passed out.
Roberto's views are anachronistic, I agree. Not so much modern, though influenced by the writer who is a modern man (that would be me). The character has a long history of actual game time. He has encountered Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Heretics, Trnasvestites,and Tytalus magi. This has evolved into a man that is both conservative and pragmatic. I am also looking at the Order of Hermes as having a similar pragmatic and anachronistic culture.
FYI Adan is also sober, though pretty useless in a fight.
He finds one, which drinking renders as acceptable in his eyes, and stays the night with her.
Yes, yes indeed. Arnau has assigned you to Roberto's expedition, and he in turn has placed you under the authority of one of his own men named Allen. Allen put you on night watch. You get relieved at dawn and you can sack out all day on ship after we depart, but for the momen, nit watch sucks. Ximo is a good guy. He stays up all night with you and brings you food and some booze and shares bawdy stories back and forth.
I think Lucas may have spent some time with them? I may have missed that. Fill in a bawdy story if you like
Then comes dawn. Roberto wakes up all cranky after only a few hours sleep. He sends an errand boy to go get Adan. He absentmindedly calls Adan a corporal and charges him to go rouse everyone and tell them to gather everything and we launch in an hour. Adan bumps into Carlos, waking up with a hangover, and tells him aside with a smile that it will likely be closer to noon.
** Last Night **
Lucas approaches the ship, some bread and cheese in one hand, and a jug of the local brew in the other. He walks over to Migeul and Ximo and offers the food and drink to them. "I figured you might like something to eat and drink," he says, holding up his hands to show what he's brought. Then, noticing another jug, a half-eaten loaf of bread, and an empty bowl, he adds, "but I see someone beat me to it." He shakes his head and shrugs. "Well, I never knew a soldier who didn't want a little extra chow." He sets the jug, bread, and cheese down on a barrel and takes a seat on another one. "The name's Lucas," he says. "I'm the new guy. Nice to meet the two of you." He offers them both his hand. "You been at the covenant long?" he asks.
[hr][/hr]
Lucas has the Gentle Gift, so there's none of that icky magus stuff to worry about.
Nope. Is Ximo's laconic response. :mrgreen:
"Well, at least we have that in common," Lucas jokes. "Any good gossip about the covenant I should know? I hate being the last person to know about something that everyone's talking about."
Adan goes to the nearest bunk, shakes the person in it, and says "Roberto says to gather everything, we launch in an hour."
He then goes to the next bunk, shakes the person in it and says "Roberto says to gather everything, we launch in an hour."
and so on, until he runs out of sleeping people to awaken. It does occur to him that it is odd that every person should have to gather everything, but those are Roberto's orders.
Still sleepy, Antonio mutters We lunch in an hour?
Then it sinks in, and his eyes widen as he comes fully awake
That's great news! No soldier should begin the day without a solid meal, lest of all the Lion of Andorra. Count me in!