Moor

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

The primary companion for the Italian wizard in my campaign is a Moorish fellow who suffers from Acondroplasia (dwarfism, in layman's terms.) Primarily because we think it's funny, and we're willing to let him suffer all sorts of insults he shrugs off. (Violent stuff is dealt with, of course.) It's fun to let him insult England and such all the time...

Annnnyhoo
I was wondering about the Muslim and Moorish conception of demons and such, especially in the middle ages.
Also, what they have that might be considered like the Fair Folk.

2

Salve Sodalis,

Islam doesn't really have a conception of demons that clearly matches that of Christianity. The Qur'an refers to "shaytans," but it's not clear what these are. Iblis himself seems to be either a jinn or a fallen angel, which doesn't help to clarify things. In terms of "evil nasty beings wandering around tempting people," in Muslim thought such beings are usually evil jinn. That said, this doesn't mesh very well with the Ars paradigm, and I would hope that whoever is writing RoP: Infernal (it's not me) will specifically address the issue of the relation of demons to Islam in the Mythic World.

With regard to Islam and Faeries, back when I wrote Blood and Sand, the boundary between what was magical and what was faerie was rather blurred, and it made sense at the time for the jinn to be magical in nature. However, the 5th edition perception of the difference between the two realms is much clearer, so in RoP: Divine I made a point of indicating that the jinn in 5th edition should be regarded as faerie creatures; indeed, I would suggest that they are the dominant faerie creatures in lands mostly populated by Muslims.

I hope this helps.

3

Ahh, thank you kindly

Which reminds me, since I forgot to ask...
Links on naming and naming conventions for the time period. Everywhere from Ireland to Russia to the muslim countries.
A good resource, that would be.

4

Like this? :smiley:

5

If you weren't a man, good sir, I'd kiss you.

6

Blood and Sand includes a list of sample Muslim names and an explanation of how they are constructed. I also posted a description of the structure of Muslim names on the web back in the days when I was in the SCA:

geocities.com/niallchristie/ibraname.html

I hope this helps.

7

Much so, thanks.

8

Can you see a line of Islamic Merinitia focussing on Jinn?

Regards,

Jarkman

9

"Can you see a line of Islamic Merinitia focussing on Jinn?"

I don't see why not. I haven't seen HoH: MC yet, so I can't comment on how it would mesh with the Merinita mysteries. :frowning:

10

There doesn't seem to be anything that would forbid it -- nor is there anything that specifically favors it.

11

There are several things going on here, and I'll admit I'm only an amateur scholar on such. When Westerners use the word "demon", it could be referring to one of at least two sorts of figures from the collected Middle-Eastern cultures.

In the history of Christianity, there was something called (and someone may correct me if I'm confusing things), "The Manichean Heresy", which said, basically, that Satan/Evil was just as big as God/Good and they struggled back and forth. If this rings a bell for folks, it's because people like Aquinas were influenced, if not convinced, but enough that it became part of "some" teachings.

The Islamic world has no such confusion. While the 10 Commandments say "Thou shalt have no other God before me", the 1st of the 5 Pillars of Islam is to state "There is NO god but God..." So- no contest there, at least not anything like the Good/Evil struggle that rages in the corners of the Christian mythos. There may be evil critters, but not on the same scale as Satan & Co.

Jinn? Folk tales. SAT Statement: "Djinn are to the Arabian Nights as Fae/Ogres are to the Brothers Grimm." A strong cultural theme, but not a "religious" one, so "Djinn as demons" does not translate well- more like "Djinn as magical ogres", or whatever.

The "shatans" mentioned above are, in fact, where we get our word "Satan"- when Islamics denounce the United States as "The Great Shatan", that's what they're referring to. More like an "evil tempter", as I understand it, but hardly a cosmic threat- merely a dire mortal one.

As far as other "fae"- not so much per se, not as we know them, but there are endless magical and mystical folk in literature - fakirs and such that have no explanation beyond "full o' mystery n' stuff". And there are some "gnomes", for lack of a better word, that go waaaaay back into ancient religions of the area (see Enkidu et al) - but again, those are largely going to be "officially" surpressed by Islam, but still found in episodes of "Folktales of the naive and ignorant."

Go to the library and find 1001 Arabian Nights- the unabridged version- pick up a volume (one of the 15 or so) and skim through some of the critters that show up. Then think about everything that shows up in the spectrum of our literature, and use your imagination.
:wink:

12

To clarify, jinn are mentioned in the Qur'an and the hadith literature (stories of the sayings and actions of the Prophet and his companions that assist in the interpretation of the Qur'an). They are said to have been made from smokeless fire, while humans were made from clay and angels were made from light. Some jinn are assigned the job of tempting humans, and some are said to have converted to Islam after overhearing the Qur'an being recited. There are many other stories in the religious literature that deal with them, though their exact nature remains rather nebulous. These religious passages form the basis for later expansions in the folk literature such as the Arabian Nights.

Indeed, Shaytan is one of the names applied to Iblis, and is also interpreted by some as referring to tempters (human or otherwise). Confusingly, it's also used in the folk literature for one of the types of jinn...

Probably the best and most complete translation to use is The Thousand Nights and One Night, a four-volume translation by J.C. Mardrus and P. Mathers.

I hope this helps.

13

A nice outline Niall/Rameau.

Which is interesting, because in ArM5 terms it implies they are potentially Divine, as well as Infernal jinn as possible characters/protagonists in Sagas. It seems that in ArM5, Magical creatures can shift realms on occasion, which makes it interesting.

If this is the case, an Islamic flavoured Merinitia (Arcadian or Folk Magic Mystery based) would have some interesting conflicts to base a Story Arc around (YMMV, depending on whether you have HoH:MC). In particularly, the Folk Magic stuff fits nicely into the Arabian nights style poetry etc.

Perhaps some sahirs wee adopted into House Merinitia?

Jarkman