Mutantum magic and tamed magic: how does it really work

Hi amici,

I was developing some Mutantum spell using tamed and mutantum parameters (from HoH TL mercere part) but i want to be sure it's okay.

So my questions, in a little labtext:

Step 1 : take a book your target will need
Step 2: cast a spell, like CrVI 20 (touch, conc tethered) to give 2 warping points (or more), with the most penetration you can. The duration is there to only make the effect waiting. (Here, question 1 : CrVi to get warping don't admit duration on magus.. what about duration "waiting time"?)
Step 3: maintening this spell at moon, ReVi 30 (Question 2: is it possible to maintain a spell tethered on an item (so not yet "affected to a target"?)
Step 4: suppressing the wizard's handiwork ReVi 30 on your maintening the demanding spell. (question 3 You have to concentrate on both Concentrated spells (difficulty 15)?)
Step 5: your target enter the room and you stop the suppressing the wizard's handiwork (yes, it is totally useless : it was just to place question 3)
Step 6: your target take the book.
Question 4: does your maintening the demanding spell penetrates the magic resistance of the target, if any?
Question 5: the CrVi spell is tethered so affect your target. Penetration is: your penetration at the time of casting + (penetration + mastery (if penetration is one of them) ) x multiplier of penetration

Question 6: what if it's not your target (magus A with who you're in war) but grog X who takes the book: tethering or not?

Question 7: what about if the spell is some InMe (Peering into the mortal mind) how would it work?

An other example:
Step 1, take the bottle of wine
Step 2: tethering inside a Creo Aquam(Corpus) to produce poisonned blood
Step 3: your enemy drink... tethering: assuming penetration is okay: would the CrAq(Co) spell create poison blood inside your enemy? should the spell be at part Target (with a T for Cuchain :wink:)?

Thanks for your precious lights!

A related question: Tamed Magic includes the advantages but not the flaws of tethered magic and harnessed magic... But what about boosted magic? Is it a mistake/an omission and it's included in Tamed magic, or must the magus take it as a normal virtue in addition to tamed magic?

34 views but no answe? :cry:

I didn't understand it. Sorry.

I don't really understand, either. Sorry.

These are my favorite two uses:

  1. Making tethered spells that I would have wanted as charged items. It's far more efficient that way.
  2. Being able to cancel my own spells with such ease. Irrelevant for spells like Pilum of Fire, but fabulous for things like shapeshifting (no item needed).

Tamed Magic is correct.


Argh... how can i say it better.

I understood that mutantum magic was all about doing stuff as :

  • cancelling at will (with harnessed part of the tamed magic for spontaneous spells and mutantum for formulaic spells)
  • giving control to another (with tethered magic (same distinction))
  • giving "spell" to an object which will give it to the next adequate target.

So a classical example (brought by the HOH TL spells example, "arrow of the hunter" or so) is tethering on an arrow (or projectile) a PeAn spell to kill the hunted beast.
easy because : arrow [spell tethering, form Animal] => hit => spell triggers if hit animal, not => animal dead (penetration is calculated at the time the arrow touch the animal (for purpose of eventual modifiers [first question])


What about a spell like this:
water [spell MuAq, triggering when anyone is 'hit']. Classical example: you drink the water. So, the water "hits" you. Hitting you, it goes "ON" and transform the water you were drinking. So when you drink it, it's poison (example), and penetration is now calculated.

I was wondering if the
A. penetration is calculated, as i think, on the moment the spell is triggered (at the "hitting" time). This is important in our IRL saga because we state that "touching" someone is a +4 modifier to penetraiton, because "someone is a indefinite connexion to himself"]
B. for the "triggering part". For a XxAn spell, triggering by hitting an animal make sense. For a "muto Aquam" spell, it's more special.

I develop the charged item (or, as my magus can do, a quick charged item) on a gobelet with MuAq (transform water to poison by touch, for moon duration). When liquid is put in this gobelet, it becomes poison. You can call it the "silent murderer".

Now, with tethering casting, no need for charged item: i can tether the gobelet with MuAq and obtain same result. (do i think, analogicly to the PeAn example spell in HOH TL)

BUT what if it's a FORM thing who carries a FORM thing?
I do think that if you can fly and give control on this flying spell to another corpus (ReCo on corpus entity = the human being able to fly), you give control on the spell to the FORM thing over the FORM spell. But as we see, a Mu (or Pe) is not a thing which is really "controlled". So i would think that it can be "tethering" by the FORM thing on which you have cast it (the Form spell) to another target. So for my example, MuAq(Co) spell on a water being drink can transform the blood of the person drinking in poison (and killing him).

But unsure...

Is it more clear? I'm sorry i wasn't clear enought the first time, it's hard to explain in english (because, even in my mothertongue, it's hard to understand ^^)

Thanks for help!

I would only allow the bonus for the caster actually and physically touching the target, nothing else.
The CASTER ISNT touching the target in your example with water, only the SPELL is.

Mutoing the blood of the target to poison wont harm him, Mutoing the water he drinks to poison will.

Well i understood SOME of it this time at least. :mrgreen:

This doesn't work. The spell would activate when the water touches an appropriate target. So you could have a PeCo spell in the water waiting for a human body's contact. But you can't have the water itself change.

Yes, this is fine because the goblet is waiting for an appropriate target.

I would not try discussing control along with the waiting aspect. The waiting aspect is sort of their description of inanimate control and thus is distinct from animate control, so you don't get both.

Also, if you can fly and give control to another, then they can move you around. For example, if you use Pull of the Skybound Winds on yourself then let someone else control it, then you're still floating up there, but the new person gets to let you drop instead of you controlling it. They only said you hand over control, not that the target changes. I find this aspect handiest with things like The Unseen Servant, allowing someone else to concentrate on moving an object for you as you deal with something else.

Sure, this works. However, why poison? It's probably easier to change the blood to water. You get the same effect. Either way the person has no more blood.

I hope my answers are more helpful now.