My Beautiful Monsters!

As the title suggests, i'm in the market to create some suitably scary monsters for my necromancer.

Looking at creo animal guidelines it appears that i can make beasties with magical abilities, and even with might (serfs parma).

However, my chap is a necromancer. Hence i want to create some undead monsters, but here is the rub, i want them to have some level of resistance to magic. Is there a way to create an undead creature with some might? Or even a way to resist certain magics (i.e. corpus).

Usually to create an undead monster i'd just bone mould the appropriate skeleton (i have a spell that allows such) and then rego corpus it to life. Usually i'd enchant the skeleton as an item to avoid the effect running out after a period of time. However skeletons of this type are VERY easy to kill with low level corpus effects (dust to dust is only lvl 15 after all).

I'm thinking up some particularly horrid creations, human skeletons with mulitple arms, tipped with great bony scythes, skeletons merged back to back so that they have 4 legs, 4 arms and can see in both directions at once. And other cheerful designs.

So, my questions

  1. has anyone else created bony horrors, if so please share, i'd love to compare notes.
  2. how would i give my monsters magic might (ala creo'd animals) or some other means to resist corpus magic, however slight.
  3. would +1 magnitude for complexity suffice for the above creations on a rego corpus effect to animate them?[/i]

Hmm - I can think of two ways to do this...

  1. make an automation of bones...

  2. Animate some bones, and bind a spirit into it.

The first one is pretty straitforward, but my guess is that you're going for the second... Unfortunatly, there isn't anything is Bonisagus's theory conserning this...

In my past group there was a merinita necromancer, or bonemancer, who want to learn animae magic to make an undead horse. So, if you aren't, you can become a Merinita! :laughing:

Gribble, I remember that once you post some necrospells that use components. That time the rules don't permit those spells, but now with Potent Magic necromancy......
And have you ever read the old white wolf book house of Tremere? Now, i hate all Wod and play only Ars Magica, Lex Arcana and teenagers from Outerspace, but in that book there are some nice necrospell that can be converted. When I have time (and the book, that was lost in some box after I moved to live away,) i can try to adapt the spells if you want.

[i][size=75]Nel mio gruppo passato c'era un negromante Merinita mago delle ossa, che voleva imparare Animae Magic per fare un cavallo non morto. Quindi, se non lo sei, diventa Merinita!

Gribble, ricordo che una volta avevi postato alcune necromagie che necessitavano di componenti. Quella volta le regole non le permettevano, ma ora con Potent Magic necromanzia....
E hai mai letto il vecchio libro della white wolf house of tremere? Ora,io odio tutto il wod e gioco solo ad Ars Magica, Lex Arcana e Teenager Manga Mutanti, ma in quel libro ci sono alcune belle necromagie che potrebberoessere convertite. Quando avrò tempo (e il libro, che è stato perso in qualche scatolone dopo che mi sono trasferito) posso provare ad adattarle se vuoi.[/size] [/i]

Not sure if this is correct, but if you are creating undead, you are using a spell...A corpus spell?
Doesn't the rules for magical spells indicate that most spells have to be overcome by higher level spells?
So, If you put preservation spells on the creature (Im certain you would, right?), then those 'low level' spells wouldn't would need a Vim spell or a Perdo Corpus spell of (serf's parma) at least higher level?

Anyone ?

This still leaves a nearly infinite number of ways to neutralize the construction against which it is totally unprotected... rego corpus it to bash itself to pieces, creo ignem it to ashes, muto corpus (animal) it into a turtle then smash it to a pulp, creo terram iron manacles on it, and so on

I seem to remember you used to have to beat Casting Totals, but I don't know if it's still the case - particularly when you consider the status of Magic Resistance in 5th edition. At any rate, PeVi spells have specific rules regarding what level they need to be to dispel a given effect.

As for creating undead with Might, Animae Magic is in my opinion indeed the way to go.

Best way, Animae Magic. I totally agree.

But well, kinda hard to obtain without altering the character (unless it's a merinita ?) so I'd say you must be a little creative and extrapolate on the guidelines.

Creo-Animal Guidelines (lvl50)
"Create a magical beast. Such spells always have a Vim requisite, for the beast's magic, and normally have other requisites, for it's powers"

So with that you can create magic animals, nothing here say it must be "alive" so a undead-magical-beast can be good. It can be scary too. Imagine a horrific-bony-wolf-thingie with poison dripping of its fangs and teeths. (I'm sure it could be your familliar with the right virtues. Just a though)

As most guidelines can be interchanged without much problem, you could have a creo-corpus spell with similar results.


  • The book doesn't give any information if the beast have actual might (I assume that yes, else how can you limits it's power use ?).
  • In the creo description, it says you can only create something that you know about. So maybe you could only re-create some creatures your magus has been in contact with (or otherwise studied)
  • It's damn hard to do. A spell level 50 (plus requisites) plus touch is indeed a pretty hard ritual (but the creation is permanent)
  • You don't control it directly (you must work a way to control it independently)
  • Maybe your storyteller or troupe could argue it needs a breakthough (minor or major)

Keep in mind that's only a suggestion and that some people won't agree my (indeed) broad generalisations i've made here. So work with it with your troupe. Whatever fits your tastes !

The only rule is to have fun after all, and with the difficulty of this method I don't feel it's unbalanced or too strong.

As it is only a base 5 to create a human corpse, you could use a vim requisite and create it in an unnatural shape, or use a group target and rego them together as part of the spell.

So, we have a Cr(Mu)Co(ViMe) ritual of about level 90 which will create two human bodies and melt them together to create a single creature.

As it does not give any guidelines in the book as to how large their might should be.
I would say either
Magnitude of the spell (18 )
Magnitude * 2 (36 )
Half the level. (45 )

Somewhere in the rules (don't have time to find it right now, sorry- CrAn???) it talks about requiring a Vim requisite to Creo magical creatures- I'd think that those would come with their own MR.

Even if not, I'd think that something similar to a Ward (ReVi) could be either incorporated, or at worst patched onto them later, to do the job. Might not be as effective as a natural, innate MR, but a good necromancer should be able to create some sort of magically resistant critters of doom.

No can do. But there's no reason why you couldn't extend your Parma to cover them. Unless you have an Army of Darkness (braiiiiins), of course - in which case, you probably needn't even bother.

I'd go with the Creo level 50 guidlines. I'm fairly certain it says someplace in the book you can grant might equal to the spell level. The problem is that I dont beleive it gives the cost in Vis which is deffinatly required.

From both Animae Magic and Phantasm guidelines, the Might gets added to the base level of the spell.

Will definately be reading up on Animae magic when i get home from work. Sadly my necromancer is a (pre 5th ed) criamon. So no faerie magic for me, but a breakthrough might be good.

I plan to use my monsters for guard duty, assassinations and general ribaldery, hence i may not be around when they do their business. I can't guarantee that i'll be around to share my parma. Also my parma is quite rubbish.

Creo rituals create things that are natural. i could creo a skeleton, even a frightfully weird one, but could i creo a animated skeleton by adding a rego requisite and still have it instant duration? If so this opens up a whole gamut of last magical effect type situations.

I was thinking of enchanting the skeletons as items. This would make the effect permanent but again its the magic might i need, or spell resistance of some kind.

How do you mean? Could you provide an example. I thought you could only ward beasties with such effects.

More or less, but cancelling the magic isn't really the problem, that would require a quite powerful counterspell. What bothers me is the ability to toally bypass the magic and simply disintegrate the bones. A spell to strengthen the bones against this would be fantastic but i don't know how to do it.

Indeed, as an old Vamp and vamp: DA player i believe i own that. Actually, going through the old thaumaturgy rituals might provide some fun ideas for spells. I'll hit the books later.

Indeed so, my aim though isn't to make the beasties indestructible. they will have reasonable soak and health levels anyway, its the insta-kill perdo corpus spell at very low levels that concerns me.

I'd say just use CreoCorpus(vim) to make a magical creature that is an animated skeleton. Give it some MR, say 10 and you looking at something like this...

CrCo(Vi) level 65
base 50, Touch, momentary, ritual (Vim is a required requisite so no added cost)
Creates a magical creature with a might of 10. Being a magical creature you can have it look like anything.

Then if you really want to get fancy you can add some more requisites so it automatically listens to you, and obeys.

Sounds about right, though I am a bit leery about the idea that you can make it look however you like. We go back to the limitation that he can only create things he's familiar with. Granted, with necromancy it's not necessarily much of a hindrance (skeleton with four arms? No problem), but still, you cannot go around granting them e.g. arbitrary powers unless you have a "natural" magical being to base your creation upon (i.e. it's can be perceived as more a summoning than a literal creation spell).

I'd say just use CreoCorpus(vim) to make a magical creature that is an animated skeleton. Give it some MR, say 10 and you looking at something like this...

CrCo(Vi) level 65
base 50, Touch, momentary, ritual (Vim is a required requisite so no added cost)
Creates a magical creature with a might of 10. Being a magical creature you can have it look like anything.

Why such a high level, a spell of lvl 55 would is sufficient to make a might 50 creature...

Care to elaborate on the design of such a spell?

Base 50 (create magical creature), add 1 magnitude for touch, and you're set.

There is a rule that the might of the final creature can't have a higher might than the level of the spell, but since this is a base 50 spell, that allows for might 50...

I was including the other line I quoted about adding the might to the spell level. So 10 might=+10levels.

Personally for a creo spell I dont think it should work like that. Instead i would have an additional vis cost per point or magnitude of might.