Mythic companions

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

I have read about mythic companions in the Infernal sourcebook, but I haven't seen anything about it in other books. Well I haven't read all of them though. Were else are they mentioned and used?

What I wonder is if these are considered well-balanced? I think two Virtue points for every Flaw point is a little too much when used to maximum. Since I got players that aren't overly interested in playing magi I have tried to make companions a little more equal in game balance compared to magi but I didn't like the way the mythic companion was set up.

I have given my companions one or two extra virtues and are also thinking about giving them extra experience points during character generation.

Have anyone else changed the way companions are created to make them better balanced with magi?

2

Mythic Companions are explained in HoH: True Lineages, RoP: Divine, RoP: Infernal, Art & Academe, RoP: Magic, Hedge Magic Revised, and RoP: Faerie. I think that's it... (Note that the above list is in chronological order).

The idea behind Mythic Companions was to make them of approximately equal power to Hermetic Magi. The general consensus is that they fall far short of this. My suggestion is, if your players dislike magi and you feel that Mythic Companions are too powerful, that you let them play additional Companion Characters.

3

We found that mythic companions can't quite match the power of a mage character even with the extra virtue points. THey can come close perhaps. A few points to magic item (say redcap), a lot more points to skills (the skill boost virtues, there are a lot of them) and such and you do get the heroic warrior that really cna stand out but the lack of magtic resistance means the mages can walk all over you.

This is especially true for the divine based characters. it is a 3 pt virtue for each power and another for each method. 2 powers, 2 methods and that is 12 of your virtue points and then you also need ceremony because without it, you aren't likely to get enough of a total to get off any effect. It definately is a lot more powerful than companion but generally not as good as your average mage.

4

I think as Ladyphoenix.
Mythic companions are good NPC.

But as PC, they suck.

5

Yeah. In my game magi are heavily curtailed, with Arts increasing as Abilities, Magical Focus adding half the Art, and effectively no multicasting - and they are STILL way better than the Mythic Companions.

6

Interesting! Can we get further info on how that works? Do you use Michael de Verteuil's Arts as Abilities rules from Hermes Portal?

Xavi

7

Like this: http://sites.google.com/site/onthehedge/house-rules

I'm using Arts as Abilities, yes. I'm also allowing ANY companion to be built like a Mythic Companion, i.e. with 20 Virtue points. (I'm keeping the +1 Minor Virtue, raising the maximum total to 21 virtue points, to the Mythic Companions that have the core Virtues, however. Just to encourage taking them.)

All of this has not resulted in overly impressive desire to play Companions, however. At age 37, the age of the magi in my party, I find that the magi are immensely powerful in comparison to the Mythic Companions.

Edit:
Example of my last fight - the party is fighting a massive magical boar. It casts a Me spell on some; the militant Mythic Companion, having no MR, flees in terror. The rest proceed.

The boar has high MR and high Soak, so is very hard for both magi and companions. They attack him physically, but cannot penetrate his tough hide. One magus attacks him with magic, but cannot penetrate his MR. Dead end? Not quite.

The militant magus does his min-maxed shtick, manages a Penetration of 30, and makes the boar very thirsty. The fight is basically over, unless the boar manages to drink soon. [Curse of the Desert]

The other magus expands some raw vis, and again manages to penetrate, with a spontaneous spell that turns the board's legs into flippers. He's like a fish outside water. Hh.

Thus, basically, ends the fight.

Magi are just way, way more powerful than mythic companions. They are more powerful in brute strength within their speciality, have access to resources that make them even stronger (raw vis), and critically they are also immensly flexible (whereas a Mythic Companion has only a few schtiks).

8

Magi are "insanely" powerful, however they have many more important things to do than baby sit companions.

If you increase the cost of the Arts, then the progression difference between a Magus that studies vs Magi that adventure is lessened. It will take years for the difference to become apparent. This encourages Magi to not stay at home and instead go out and do everything for the companions.

As powerful a they are, they always can be more powerful. The desire for research, creation of items, discoveries and inventing spells all has to compete with the daily lives of companions and grogs... as well the longing for adventure.

I do see the problem you face though, to make an adventure a challenge for a group of Magi, the threats faced will be too much for a companion. However that is the reason for the troupe play, with one person playing their Magus and other's playing companions or grogs.

The magi need to be reminded at times they Need companions. They also need to be reminded they need to protect the companions and grogs, they are fragile. Magi unwilling to extend parma to companions ... will have dead companions.

9

Err... the cost of the arts is the same as before only different in how it is defined.... Read the article in Hermes Portal. Quite an interesting concept there :slight_smile: it is called "Arts as Abilities". in the heretic's Corner section :slight_smile:

Xavi

10

ok, just read an over view of that article... You are right that would be a fascinating read.

Just upping the cost of the Arts would be bad imo.

11

I only have the Infernal and Magic realm books of the above and it was in Infernal i first saw the Mythic Companion concept. Where is it in the Magic realm book?

Another thought I have had is why isn't there a virtue that gives plain Magic Resistance? I have found that is the major drawback for non-magis so if they just could get some resistance from the magis they would get a little more equal to them. Maybe there is a virtue like that somewhere in the books I don't have access to?

One of my PCs was born with the Gift but then during apprenticeship something got wrong and it was lost (Failed Apprentice virtue). She has a bunch of supernatural virtues as bonus virtues (I didn't know the mythic companion concept when we crated the PCs so I just gave some extra virtues away to try to make her even to the magis). But as is said here, the lack of magic resistance is her main drawback.

12

Ah, no, if that's what you mean that I'm not using Arts as Abilties. I've simply upped the costs of Arts to that of Abilities, as explained in the House Rules I linked to.

13

Do spells keep their "normal" (as per the RAW) level then? Casting a POF or anything above level 10 will be extremely difficult if you did....

Xavi

14

Yes an no-it-doesn't. It leads to more min-maxing, and does lower the power-level somewhat but not by too much. Our Merinitia Muto specialist still sponts some very nice spells, and our militant Criamon still has formidable PeCo spells which he casts with frighteningly high Penetration. It really isn't as drastic a change as it appears to be.

15

Page 88, under the Spirit Votary virtue. There are virtues that provide MR, but apart from True Faith, and perhaps Infernal Blessing, it is in the form of Might which comes with several drawbacks. The reason for this rarity is because MR is supposed to be Hermetic Magi's ultimate weapon for pummeling helpless Hedge Wizards and, concsequently, the order ruthlessly exterminates any competing sources of MR that they can...

16

Hmmm may I know how?

4-5 in 2 arts, stamina +2 and penetration 3 would be a fairly "normal" specialization for a starter magus for what I can see. That limits you to a casting total of +12 or so. Maybe +15 if you have a focus. So you can cast level 20 spells, but with very bad penetration totals.

Am I missing something?

Xavi

17

I guess it's the "increased Min/Max-ing"
A specialist in his specialist area (with increased min/max) shuld be:

Tech 5 + form 5 + stamina 2 + puisants 2+2 + fokus 5 + screaming and waving 2, which gives 23+die-roll.
(assuming that puisant gives only +2 not +3 as it does with normal progression)

Probably with an arcane connection and a penetration score (which will be even more important with lower arts) to boost the penetration.

With this set-up making a talisman and attunig it to your specialities is also much more useful and important. Add +5 or more from that and we can see pilums with penetration in the twenties before multiplication...

HÃ¥kon
guessing how this could work from old munchkin-habbits.

18

Seems reasonable. Thanks :slight_smile:

It also makes "other stuff" like talismans, words and gestures, ACs... more important when it comes to spellcasting, that is something I have always liked.

2 at level 5 is over the top though, sinc ehe will be crippled in other areas, like normal abilities (2x level 5 is 150 XP). But you never know....

Cheers,
Xavi

19

23... in formulaic.
Berk.
And for spontaneous... berrrrk.

Exar, prefers the RAW.

20

Yeah, quite so.

While i too like the "other stuff" to be good, what that system leads to is "one-trick-ponies" almost taken to the extreme.
Suitable for "failed apprentice" or "flawed gift" sure, but for magi in general? Bleh!