Mythic Madrid

Well, not quite. I'm off the Madrid for a week's holiday this weekend and it occured to me that with all the wealth of the peninsula's history, there should be some interesting things to see in the area. Specifically, interesting things which can serve as ideas since my players want me to start a saga in the Iberian Tribunal. So, does anyone know what is there and what should I go and see?

Well Madrid in that time is less importatnt that for example "Alcala", in general the region is under autorities that come from Toledo and things similars.
Today there are many things, since XVI to the XIX create many haunted houses and for example in the point of 666 m at the sea level there are a Luzifer statue of the XIX. In general, Alcala have mor histroy things, Roman and Visigotics ruines, many ancients islamics forts and thins like that. Mainly the City is a little city with many rests from ancient islamic times, and with the rules of "City and Guild".

Gracias. Intentaremos visitarlo si tenemos suficiente tiempo.

(My Spanish is terrible, so this should prove an interesting experience. Sorry if I mangled it above.)

Had the Spanish any special magical practices?

Yes. Hermeticism. In Ars Magica, Hermeticism is spread all over Mythic Europe. But in real history, what we moderns identify as "Hermetic" began in Spain during the middle ages and then spread out from there. To be more specific, Alchemy and Astrology. Yes, these were first imported by Islamic scholars, but it quickly spread amongst Hispanic scholars. Also, the Visgoths were known for making magical items, similar to the Germanic traditions Verditius borrowed from (Visgoths were also Germanic). And then I suppose the Basques practiced some form of Shamanism (that is, Spirit Magic/Theurgy based around a Chthonic goddess named Mari). Then of course there are the Sahirs, and a form of Berber hedge magican known as Marabouts (many modern Berbers still practice Maraboutism to a limited degree).

Spanish, spanish, no. Because in Medieval (and Mythic) times Spain didn't exist. There are differents kingdoms, lores and languages. And magics of course.
Like say Marko, but Astrological, Cabbalyst, necromancers and types of learned magics in Muslims and Jewds sones and neighborhoods (from that, Hermeticsm). There were Tempestarius in the north too.
In few time i'll search and i'll make hedge traditions and Ex Myskellanea and Hermetics traditions and lineages from that kingdoms.

Spain as a nation did not exist yet. But concepts such as Hispanic did, and the region's Roman name was Hispania. Also, Spain/Spanish are English words. In the Castellan tongue, the words would be Espana and Espanol, derivded directly from the Latin word Hispania.

And for the layman, it is simpler to just refer to the region as Spain and to Castellano as Spanish. IMS, I group Castillian and Leonesse together as Spanish, and I count Catalan as a form of Provencal. I try to play up the multi-lingual aspect since it is still very much present in modern Spain (they speak Catalan in Barcelona and Spanish in Madrid).

Thanks, I'll search these traditions.

Might I be the first to strongly suggest that "Tribunals of Hermes: Iberia" should be the last place you look for information. I'll be starting an Iberian saga soon (probably - the troupe are debating about Stonehenge instead) and hauled out my copy to read properly. It's absolutely awful. The historical details are thin, the veneer of Hermetic history shows gaps, every single thing is attributed to demons, everything is corrupt, and the writing is terrible. The writing deserves special mention - it's sensational, inconsistent and rather than having a single history with plothooks, it presents questions inside the body of the text which imply that the history given is untrustworthy, especially since some of the points of departure it tries to propose would have significant ramifications to the progress of history in the setting. It also completely ignores chunks of the area (Basques, what Basques? Nothing to see here.)

All told, it makes me wish that a 5th Edition Tribunal book would come out - the ones thus far, whilst a little dry at times, have been wonderfully rich in ideas, and with sufficient attention to history to give a reasonable framework in which to carry out your own research in the bits you need. Perhaps most importantly, they don't include Relegare except as a tongue in cheek reference.

MarioJPC - no pudimos visitar Alcala, pero visitamos Toledo y Segovia, y vimos el estatua del angel caido en el Parque de el Retiro. Quisimos volver si es posible.

Yep, i trust you. Je.
La próxima vez aviusa y te hago de guía, je.

No, I want to read the historical informations. Thanks anyway.
If you use also net sources could you send the links here or in PM?

ToH-Iberia is a flawed gem. It is an awesome book if used the right way. Yes, it skips big areas like Pelayo and the Basques, and it is "overseasoned" with Infernal flavoring. But there are also mant parts that are most excellent. Covenant of Barcelona for one. Mythic Visgothic history, the true story of Flambeau the Founder, and more. The bad parts are pretty aweful though, I do admit. Do some wikipedia research and you will do great (wikipedia is the ultimate gamer's supplament).

I agree that there are some very good bits, and Barcelona is a highlight (save for the bit where the sodding Praeco drops into conversation that he enjoys conversations with the demon responsible for corrupting the souls of the city and advises someone else to try it themselves). What Mythic Visigothic History though? They show up, convert to Catholicism, and then vanish again, with a few sentences about their magic having norse roots. As for Torch, whilst I agree that the changing of names in the 5th Ed supplement was both unnecessary and disrespectful, I think both stories are similar enough that as has been suggested in the past, they can represent different views on history shaded by factions to suit themselves and both work equally well. Though I do have a soft-spot for a magus who locks himself into his room and doesn't come out until his cigarette lighter can burn down charging knights.

Wikipedia is, thus far, my friend.

You have been elevated to the status of Awesome and Excellent :smiley:
(I am a Flambeau fan, and represent the faction that insists he was Hispanic (not Frankish) and that his name was Reculed Anneus Seneca, filius Delendar)
The demons and stuff, yeah, a bit to much infernal flavor. But that was the style of 3rd edition. I happen to know that most all of that was added afterward by the editors at WW. In my Barcelona, there is no demon. I had to assure the players again and again that I am not trying to trick them, there just simply no demon in Barcelona covenant whatsoever. Remove that stumbling block, and what remains is an excellent and interesting covenant that is a lot of fun to play with.

I'm all for this. Basques, the Pyrenees, Andalusia, the Maghreb - all are elements completely glossed over by the 3rd edition supplement. I've been collating some material on this and we even started a Yahoo group about this, but it is in hiatus as I think we all got caught up in RL events.

For an alternative take on an Iberian covenant that you might find interesting, see my article on Dar al-Nujum in the upcoming issue of Sub Rosa - I basically wrote it with a whole lot of Story Seeds (interesting place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there) and touched on some of the more diverse aspects of Iberia not covered in ToH: Iberia...



Once we have done the Tribunals that haven't had a book at all yet (Hibernia, Thebes, Transylvania), or lack a proper book (Provencal), Iberia and Rome are next in line. It'll take a while.

I can wait for quality. Still, that's good news to start a day.

A new Iberia and Rome book would be awesome. It would be especially awesome if you could restore Flambeau's Hispanic heritage :smiley:

It's a lovely bit of work (and the Dark Crystal inspiration made me laugh). I think I shall lift it wholesale for my upcoming game.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm sure the other contributors would appreciate feedback on their articles.

The artwork by Jeff Menges was what kicked it all off but I'd always been fascinated by orreries.

Great. Let me know how it works out for you - either on the boards or via email.

My next Sub Rosa project is likely to be some ideas on Andalusian magi together with some more astrological concepts such as astrolabes, zij etc.